Re: Could automake-generated Makefiles required GNU make? (was: Re: [gnu-prog-discuss] portability)

[Bob Friesenhahn]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Stefano Lattarini wrote:

> > In order for this to work, Automake would need to become self-hosting
> > (not need other packages to be installed in advance) and written only
> > in a GNU-approved and FSF-copyrighted portable implementation
> > language.
> Honestly, my idea was to follow the "lead" of Quagmire here, and use
> GNU make's own "extensibility" ($(eval), $(call), self-reflection
> features like $(.VARIABLES), etc.) as a leverage.  If we don't, we'd
> better try to create a new-generation build system instead, as you've
> proposed.

I would like to use a build system which maintains a formal record of 
input files used, as well as their signatures, so that the software is 
properly built even if a file is set back in time (e.g. replaced with 
an older version).  I would also like to use a build system which 
intelligently avoids unnecessary re-linking of objects and libraries 
but always re-links when needed.  I would like to use a build system 
which can intelligently distribute builds across multiple machines if 
necessary.  Can pure GNU make syntax be used to accomplish all that?

> That sounds like a too grand, over-reaching plan to me; and its very
> concept seems to be somewhat at odds with the Unix philosophy.

How so?  It is true that Kernighan & Pike recommend simplicity but 
they don't recommend inefficiency either.  Today the GNU build system 
suffers from considerable inefficiency and a huge amount of 
complexity.  If GNU is willing to require that a GNU build tool be 
installed in advance, then that build tool should be the best fit for 
the actual requirements as possible.

In autotools, great effort is made to try to write shell, sed, awk, 
and m4 code which works portably across many implementations and 
requires a great many fork/exec calls and opening, reading, writing, 
and closing of files.  If GNU is to require installing a build tool 
then that build tool should entirely eliminate any need to worry about 
syntax portability so that scripts can be written to do exactly what 
is required.

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
address@hidden, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/