Re: [Axiom-developer] Proving Axiom Correct

Thanks for your reply. I acknowledge my ignorance (and bias) on most of the advances in program proving.

That is true, but "getting it to work always" must be mathematics and yet, even mathematics itself is not perfect: there are gaps in mathematical proofs that authors sometimes miss but can be fixed, and there are ones that cannot be fixed because the argument is simply wrong as shown by counter-examples. Proving a program correct, however, is more than mathematics alone, and however careful the theory of program proving and self-applied to its implementation to create a proven kernel, it is done by humans and humans make errors. Coq falls into this category:

Proven hardware, proven operating systems, proven compilers, and proven languages exist now.

What do you mean by "proof checking"? If I understand Coq, it (discovers and) produces a step by step logical sequence proving the specifications (including any alleged proof of theorems) are correct (and correctly implemented?). Are you referring to checking that sequence? That would be valid if the program under re-certification has not changed, but any change (even if just by renaming one variable, say due to a typo). would require a de novo program proof (throwing away the previously discovered sequence of proof that established correctness).

I didn't say and I am not saying that working towards a more perfect and error-free program proving system is not important. Keep up the good work.

From: Tim Daly <address@hidden>
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 5:45 PM
To: William Sit; axiom-dev; Tim Daly
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Proving Axiom Correct

William,

That's an interesting reply. In general, I agree with the points you make.

Some overall comments are in order. For the last 18 months I've been working

with people at Carnegie Mellon in Computer Science. One thing that really

stands out is that virtually all the courses have a strong emphasis, if not

a complete focus, on type theory and program proof. The "next generation"

is being taught this from day 1. People like me are WAY behind the curve.

Another comment is there is a HUGE literature on program proof which I

was mostly unaware of. There is great progress being made, both in the

theory and in the practice.

>One of the main goals of program proof projects is to prove correctness
>of a piece of computer code. Given the myriad of computer languages,
>subject matters and their theories, algorithms, and implementation (which
>is not necessarily the same as the algorithm itself, since implementation
>requires choices in data representation whereas algorithms are more
>abstract), a proof system must limit its scope to be manageable, say
>for a particular language, a narrow subject matter, one of the theories,
>basic algorithms. It must then allow mappings of data representation to
>theoretical concepts/objects and verify compatibility of these mappings on
>inputs before proceeding to prove a certain implementation is correct. In
>certain situations (such as erratic inputs), error handling needs to be included.
>In addition, there are hardware-software interfaces (assemblers, compilers,
>instruction sets, computer architecture, microcodes, etc) that must have
>their own (program) proof systems.

I have been researching the issue of "proving down to the metal". I have

become aware of a lot of work in this area. Proven hardware, proven

oprating systems, proven compilers, and proven languages exist now.

For Axiom I've been concentrating on two levels. I'm using ACL2 for the

Lisp code and Coq for the Spad code.

My website contains 6 years of work I did on defining the hardware

semantics of the Intel instruction set. See

http://daly.axiom-developer.org/intel.pdf

>So any claim that a certain program is "correct" can only be one small
>step in a long chain of program proofs. And if any change is made,
>whether to hardware or software in this chain, the whole program
>proof must be repeated from scratch (including the proof for the
>program prover itself).

In my local version of Axiom, during the build phase, I run ACL2 and

Coq to "re-prove" the code that has been proven. Proof checking is

considerably easier than proof discovery. So, yes, the "program proof

is repeated from scratch" during build.

>Of course, proving any step in this long chain to be "correct" will be
>progress and will give more confidence to the computed results.

Agreed.

>Nonetheless, in the end, it is still always: "well-it-mostly-works".
>If a computation is mission critical, a real-world practitioner should
>always perform the same computation using at least two independent
>systems. But even when the two (or more) results agree, no one
>should claim that the programs used are "correct" in the absolute
>sense: they just appear to give consistent results for the problem
>and inputs at hand. For most purposes, particularly in academic
>circles, that is "good enough". If assurance of correctness is paramount,
>the results should be verified by manual computations or with
>assistance from other proven programs (verification is in general
>different from re-computation and often a lot simpler)

Clearly you're unaware of the notion of a proven kernel. See

Barras and Werner "Coq in Coq" which goes into much greater

detail than is appropriate here.

Verifying algorithms, e.g. the GCD, has been done since around 1968.

The world has gotten much better in the last 50 years. At the bleeding

edge, Homotopy Type Theory has things like a theory of coercion which

may end up being part of the Axiom proof pile.

>As a more concrete example, consider an implementation of an
>algorithm which claims to solve always correctly a quadratic equation
>in one variable: $a x^2 + b x + c = 0$ over any field (given $a, b, c$ in
>the field). The quadratic formula (in case $a \ne 0$) provides one
>algorithm, which can easily be proved mathematically, albeit less so
>by a computer program. However, the proof of the correctness of any
>implementation based on this formula is a totally different challenge.
>This is due to at least two problems. First is the problem of representation
>involving field elements and implementation of field operations. The
>second is that the roots may not lie in the field (error handling).

You're well aware of the Category structure of Axiom. Consider that each

proposition is attached at the appropriate place in the Category hierarchy.

Propositions are also attached to Domains.

Proving the GCD in the Domain NNI is different from proving the GCD in

any of the other Domains. You inherit different propositions and have local

propositions appropriate to the chosen domain. The representation of

elements of these domains differ and they are available during proofs.

As for the issue of error handling, what you identify is an error that is

generic to the problem domain, not an error in the implementation of the

algorithm. These are different classes of errors.

>...[elide]...

>A correct implementation may need to distinguish whether the field is
>the rational numbers, the real numbers, complex numbers, ...

This is the beauty of Axiom's structure. There are different algorithms

for different domains, each having different propositions that carry the

assumptions relevant to that Domain and the particular algorithm, as

well as any that are Categorically available.

>The point is, a general algorithm that can be proved (usually
>mathematically, or through pseudo-code using loop invariant methods
>if loops are involved) may still need to distinguish certain inputs (in the
>quadratic equation example, can the coefficients be 0? what type of
>field?) or else its implementation (also proved to correspond correctly
>to the quadratic formula) could still fail miserably (see Pat M. Sterbenz,
>Floating-point Computation, Prentice Hall, 1974, Section 9.3).

See Gustafson, "The End of Error" and his online debate with Kahan.

>Questions that should be asked of any claim of proven implementation
>include: what are the specifications of the algorithm? is the algorithm
>(data) representation independent? how accurate are the specifications?

All good questions. What is the specification of a sort? It not only must
state that the results are ordered but also that the result is a permutation
of the input. Axiom has the advanage that a portion of its algorithms have
mathematical specifications (e.g. Sine, GCD, etc.). Furthermore, additional

properties can be proven (gcd(x,y)=gcd(y,x)) and used by the algebra at

a later time.

>How complete are they? A claim like "Groebner basis, is proven" (or
>Buchberger's algorithm is proven) probably has little to with proof of an
>implementation if it is done with "unreadable, consisting mostly of
>'judgements' written in greek letters" (which I guess meant pure logical
>deductions based on mathematical assertions and computations
>involving some form of lambda-calculus).

Start with Martin-Lof and Gentzen. I can't begin to generate a response

to this because it's taken me 18 months to get up to speed. Without an

intense study of the subject we have no common ground for understanding.

I'm not trying to dismiss your claim. It is perfectly valid. But there has been

50 years of work on the program proof side of mathematics and without a

deeper understanding of that work it is hard to communicate precisely.

It would be like trying to explain Computer Algebra's ability to do Integration

without mentioning Risch.

>Of course, for implementations, "well-they-mostly-work". That status
>will be with us for a very long time. While we should continue to work
>towards ideals (kudos to Tim), we must recognize that "good enough"
>is good enough for most users.

Yeah, they "mostly work", except when they don't. Distinguish hacking

from mathematics. "Getting it to mostly work" is not mathematics. Which

is fine, if that's all that matters to you. I agreed that hacking is "good enough

for most users".

That said, this effort is research. It is an attempt to unite two areas of

computational mathematics, both with 50 years of rich history. Most users

don't care. In fact, no one cares but me. Which is fine. I fully expect to

publish a series of minor papers no one will ever read. And, given the

magnitude of the task, I am certain it cannot be completed. In fact, I

devote a whole chapter of Volume 13 to "Why this effort will not succeed".

To quote Richard Hamming:

"If what you are working on is not important,

why are you working on it?"

I think this research is important.

Tim

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 1:11 PM, William Sit <address@hidden> wrote:

Dear All:

One of the main goals of program proof projects is to prove correctness of a piece of computer code. Given the myriad of computer languages, subject matters and their theories, algorithms, and implementation (which is not necessarily the same as the algorithm itself, since implementation requires choices in data representation whereas algorithms are more abstract), a proof system must limit its scope to be manageable, say for a particular language, a narrow subject matter, one of the theories, basic algorithms. It must then allow mappings of data representation to theoretical concepts/objects and verify compatibility of these mappings on inputs before proceeding to prove a certain implementation is correct. In certain situations (such as erratic inputs), error handling needs to be included. In addition, there are hardware-software interfaces (assemblers, compilers, instruction sets, computer architecture, microcodes, etc) that must have their own (program) proof systems.

So any claim that a certain program is "correct" can only be one small step in a long chain of program proofs. And if any change is made, whether to hardware or software in this chain, the whole program proof must be repeated from scratch (including the proof for the program prover itself). For example, a CPU or even a memory architecture change could have affected an otherwise proven program. Witness the recent Intel CPUs debacle in relation to a security flaw (due to hierarchical memory and prefetching on branches). Subsequent patches slow the CPUs, which would surely affect real-time applications, particularly those used for high-frequency trading: yes the program may still work "correctly", but does it really if a delay measured in microseconds causes a loss of millions of dollars?

Of course, proving any step in this long chain to be "correct" will be progress and will give more confidence to the computed results. Nonetheless, in the end, it is still always: "well-it-mostly-works". If a computation is mission critical, a real-world practitioner should always perform the same computation using at least two independent systems. But even when the two (or more) results agree, no one should claim that the programs used are "correct" in the absolute sense: they just appear to give consistent results for the problem and inputs at hand. For most purposes, particularly in academic circles, that is "good enough". If assurance of correctness is paramount, the results should be verified by manual computations or with assistance from other proven programs (verification is in general different from re-computation and often a lot simpler).

As a more concrete example, consider an implementation of an algorithm which claims to solve always correctly a quadratic equation in one variable: $a x^2 + b x + c = 0$ over any field (given $a, b, c$ in the field). The quadratic formula (in case $a \ne 0$) provides one algorithm, which can easily be proved mathematically, albeit less so by a computer program. However, the proof of the correctness of any implementation based on this formula is a totally different challenge. This is due to at least two problems. First is the problem of representation involving field elements and implementation of field operations. The second is that the roots may not lie in the field (error handling).

We may assume the implementation of the field operations are already proved "correct", but in implementing the quadratic equation solver, the programmer does not know much about the representation of the field (which is an input only known, partially, at run time). A correct implementation may need to distinguish whether the field is the rational numbers, the real numbers, complex numbers, the quotient field of an integral domain, an abstract field like an integral domain modulo a maximal prime ideal,  a finitely generated field extension of another field, or an abstract field like the field of p-adic numbers. There would be little problem if the field is algebraically closed or is symbolic. What if the field is the field of real numbers, and the representation of a real number is a normalized floating point number? Such a representation would have problems like overflow and underflow not present in an abstract field. So, before we "prove" correctness, we need first to redefine the problem's scope, the algorithm, including input and output specifications, and if that is too general, we have to narrow the scope and implement different algorithms for different classes of inputs.

The point is, a general algorithm that can be proved (usually mathematically, or through pseudo-code using loop invariant methods if loops are involved) may still need to distinguish certain inputs (in the quadratic equation example, can the coefficients be 0? what type of field?) or else its implementation (also proved to correspond correctly to the quadratic formula) could still fail miserably (see Pat M. Sterbenz, Floating-point Computation, Prentice Hall, 1974, Section 9.3).

Questions that should be asked of any claim of proven implementation include: what are the specifications of the algorithm? is the algorithm (data) representation independent? how accurate are the specifications? How complete are they? A claim like "Groebner basis, is proven" (or Buchberger's algorithm is proven) probably has little to with proof of an implementation if it is done with "unreadable, consisting mostly of 'judgements' written in greek letters" (which I guess meant pure logical deductions based on mathematical assertions and computations involving some form of lambda-calculus).

Of course, for implementations,  "well-they-mostly-work". That status will be with us for a very long time. While we should continue to work towards ideals (kudos to Tim), we must recognize that "good enough" is good enough for most users.

My ignorant and biased 2-cents.

William

William Sit
Professor Emeritus
Department of Mathematics
The City College of The City University of New York
New York, NY 10031

homepage: wsit.ccny.cuny.edu

From: Axiom-developer <axiom-developer-bounces+wyscc=sci.ccny.cuny.edu@nongnu.org> on behalf of Tim Daly <address@hidden>
Sent: Monday, April 2, 2018 1:37 PM
To: axiom-dev; Tim Daly
Subject: [Axiom-developer] Proving Axiom Correct

I've been working on proving Axiom correct for years now.

I've spent the last 18 months learning proof systems and

deep-diving into the theory (thanks, in part, to Carnegie

Mellon's Computer Science Department giving me the

"Visiting Scholar" appointment and faculty access).

I've "discovered" that there are two large, independent,

and largely parallel efforts in computational mathematics.

There is the computer algebra field, where we spend most

of our time and effort. The concentration is on finding new

algorithms. This is interesting and quite satisfying. It appears

to be "progress". There is a large body of literature.

There is the program proof field, where a large number of

people spend most of their time and effort. The concentration

is on building systems to prove programs correct. On some

occasions a computer algebra algorithm, like Groebner basis,

is proven. There is a large body of literature.

Surprisingly though, there is little overlap. It is very rare to

find a paper that cites both Jenks (CA) and Nipkow (PP).

In fact, without a great deal of background, the papers in the

program proof field are unreadable, consisting mostly of

"judgements" written in greek letters. Or, coming from the

proof field, finding the computer algebra "algorithms" lacking

anything that resembles rigor, not to mention explanations.

Both fields are very large, very well developed, and have been

growing since the latter half of the last century.

It is important to bridge the gap between these two field.

It is unlikely that anyone will invest the millions of dollars and

thousands of hours necessary to "rebuild" an Axiom-sized

computer algebra system starting with a proof system. It is

also unlikely that anyone will succeed in proving most of

the existing computer algebra systems because of their

ad hoc, "well-it-mostly-works", method of development.

Axiom has the unique characteristic of being reasonably well

structured mathematically. It has many of the characteristics

found in proof-system idea like typeclasses (aka Axiom's

"Category-and-Domain" structures. What Axiom lacks is the

propositions from typeclass-like systems.

So the path forward to unite these fields is to develop the

propositional structure of Axiom and used these propositions

to prove the existing algorithms. Uniting these fields will bring

a large body of theory to computer algebra and a large body

of algorithms to a grounded body of logic.

Tim

From:	William Sit
Subject:	Re: [Axiom-developer] Proving Axiom Correct
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2018 22:03:49 +0000