Re: The 'source x' command doesn't keep variables set by x when source output is piped into other command

[Chet Ramey]

On 11/18/24 12:55 AM, Martin D Kealey wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Nov 2024, 03:32 Chet Ramey, <chet.ramey@case.edu 
> <mailto:chet.ramey@case.edu>> wrote:
>
>     On 11/16/24 3:36 AM, Martin D Kealey wrote:
>     I don't think a disclaimer saying "this manual is not what it does not
>     claim to be" is particularly useful.
>
>
> That's valid, but how else do we get people to read the correct document 
> for their skill level, when their self-assessment will invariably be wrong? 
> How can we reasonably expect users to assess their own skill level and 
> choose a 'tutorial' when their instincts are telling them "yep I understand 
> almost all of this stuff"?

Maybe I have a higher opinion of users than this? This is pretty scathing.

> The Shell language /looks/ simple, while actually being one of the most 
> complex languages in common use, and its multitude of subtle fishhooks 
> effectively turns half the populace into Dunning-Kruger sufferers. 
> Moreover, we are complicit in this: every new feature added to Bash makes 
> it more useful, more attractive to new users.

OK, you have a problem with the language and its definition. Let's not
project that on everyone.

> The morally right thing to do would be to shoo them away, not attract them.
> In the meantime we owe them a duty of care.

Wow, you really don't think much of new users.

> I've used Bash for about 30 years, and even I have to wonder whether the 
> Shell manual should start with this warning instead:
>
> "/If you're writing a new script from scratch, *STOP NOW*, and go and 
> choose a different language - ANY language. No matter what you choose, it 
> will be a better choice than the Shell language.

Maybe spend some time away from this. I don't think adding that helps
anyone -- me, users of any experience level, people who want to help --
anyone. It's just alienating.

Chet
--
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
                 ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU    chet@case.edu    http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/