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bug#43308: 28.0.50; Improvements to Edit->Search menu
From: |
Eli Zaretskii |
Subject: |
bug#43308: 28.0.50; Improvements to Edit->Search menu |
Date: |
Thu, 10 Sep 2020 18:51:12 +0300 |
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 08:38:04 -0700
> Cc: 43308@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > I disagree. Many applications have only the non-incremental search
> > commands, so removing them will leave the user who are used to those
> > with the incremental variant, which might be confusing for people who
> > have no experience with comparable commands.
>
> I think this is less of a concern these days.
In what way is this less of a concern?
> The applications you talk about also have search dialog boxes, which
> make the non-incremental search actually useful.
That's true in some cases, but not in all of them. And the dialog is
not really relevant here: the issue I raise is with the concept of
incremental searching being unfamiliar.
> Firefox also has incremental search by default, which many (most?) of
> our users will already be familiar with.
Some applications added incremental search, but many don't have it,
and probably never will. Simple editors are in that class.
> > If you are suggesting a "repeat last search" menu item, it could be a
> > useful idea. But removing those items because we don't have a simple
> > repeat item is a step in the wrong direction, IMO.
>
> This is a separate discussion, I think, but on graphical displays I
> would ideally like to see a user interface like the one in C-f Firefox.
> It shows clickable buttons for next/previous match, toggles for "Match
> Case", "Whole Words" and how many matches there are.
Improving the (non-existing) search dialog is a separate discussion.
If you want to work on such a dialog, please do. but that is not what
we are talking here. The proposal on the table is to remove
non-incremental search commands from the Search menu. let's stay
focused on that issue, okay?
> > Feel free to suggest a better name for the item and/or a better help
> > string.
>
> We could perhaps move it to a menu related to tags functionality? Just
> an idea.
No, I think this is fundamentally a search command. TAGS is just an
aid.
> >> 1. Menu items do not show the key binding (is in Incremental search
> >> menu). I think that showing bindings is generally a great idea for
> >> discoverability
> >
> > If there's no key binding shown in the menu, it means the command
> > invoked by the menu item doesn't have a key. When there's a key
> > binding, the machinery that displays the menu adds them automatically.
>
> Right. The problem here is that these commands are specifically
> designed to be run from the menu. Is there any way to work around that?
What kind of workaround do you have in mind?
> >> 2. There is currently no way to understand what some unfamiliar menus do
> >> except blindly trying.
> >
> > See above: "C-h k" is the way to understand that.
>
> Maybe this should be clarified more in the doc string of C-h k. I never
> realized you can use "C-h k" to find out more about menu options, but I
> suppose it makes sense now that you mention it.
There's something new to learn about Emacs every day ;-)
> Perhaps we could add a special command under the "Help" menu that says
> "Help for menu" that when clicked runs C-h k with a special message in
> the mini-buffer "Click the menu command you want help for"?
I don't mind, if this will really help this to be more discoverable.
(Of course Xah Lee thinks that our Help menu is too large as it is...)
- bug#43308: 28.0.50; Improvements to Edit->Search menu, Ihor Radchenko, 2020/09/10
- bug#43308: 28.0.50; Improvements to Edit->Search menu, Eli Zaretskii, 2020/09/10
- bug#43308: 28.0.50; Improvements to Edit->Search menu, Juri Linkov, 2020/09/10
- bug#43308: 28.0.50; Improvements to Edit->Search menu, Eli Zaretskii, 2020/09/10
- bug#43308: 28.0.50; Improvements to Edit->Search menu, Juri Linkov, 2020/09/10
- bug#43308: 28.0.50; Improvements to Edit->Search menu, Eli Zaretskii, 2020/09/10
- bug#43308: 28.0.50; Improvements to Edit->Search menu, Ihor Radchenko, 2020/09/20
- bug#43308: 28.0.50; Improvements to Edit->Search menu, Eli Zaretskii, 2020/09/20
- bug#43308: 28.0.50; Improvements to Edit->Search menu, Drew Adams, 2020/09/20