Re: [Bug-gnubg] Bug-gnubg Digest, Vol 150, Issue 2

[Tom Martin]

It's just a bot - it won't be insulted if you make it roll over when it gets a particularly good roll.  And similarly you can try again when you get an especially bad roll.  And if you're curious about how things would have gone after a particular roll, you can go back and use Edit to specify that roll. 

People seem to be reluctant to do this because they consider it cheating.  You be the judge - to me it greatly improves everything about the experience of playing against a computer.

But don't overdo it - you want to have SOME experience handling bad positions.  

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 9:00 AM, <address@hidden> wrote:

Send Bug-gnubg mailing list submissions to
        address@hidden

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        address@hidden

You can reach the person managing the list at
        address@hidden

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Bug-gnubg digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Gnu backgammon (Barb Pylatuk)
   2. Re: Gnu backgammon (Michael Petch)
   3. Re: Gnu backgammon (David Bellows)
   4. Re: Gnu backgammon (Ian Shaw)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 14:33:52 -0500
From: Barb Pylatuk <address@hidden>
To: address@hidden
Subject: [Bug-gnubg] Gnu backgammon
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

This is the most frustrating game!  Whenever I am winning, gnu
automatically starts hitting all my men all the time.  If I am losing
and waiting to get on the board, gnu manages to clear all its men so
that I can only get on at 4. Then, once I am on at 4 my rolls are
double ones or one and three or some other nonsense so that I
am guaranteed to lose.  Similarily, if I have gnu cornered it will roll
doubles so it will get clear across the board on to its own side. The
game is rigged to win. If I do win a game, and start another game it
starts again to hit all my men all the time. If it is a close match and
we are rolling to remove our men from the board, gnu is rolling doubles
continually until it is off the board.

I don't know why I keep playing.  I do not want to win every game but I
certainly would expect a fair  chance.  Gnu does not offer that.



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 15:33:48 -0600
From: Michael Petch <address@hidden>
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] Gnu backgammon
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252



On 2015-05-18 1:33 PM, Barb Pylatuk wrote:
> The
> game is rigged to win. If I do win a game, and start another game it
> starts again to hit all my men all the time. If it is a close match and
> we are rolling to remove our men from the board, gnu is rolling doubles
> continually until it is off the board.
>
> I don't know why I keep playing.  I do not want to win every game but I
> certainly would expect a fair  chance.  Gnu does not offer that.
>

Thanks for letting us know our neural network in the current release is
working so well!

--
Michael Petch
GNU Backgammon Maintainer / Developer
OpenPGP FingerPrint=D81C 6A0D 987E 7DA5 3219 6715 466A 2ACE 5CAE 3304



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 15:11:51 -0700
From: David Bellows <address@hidden>
To: Barb Pylatuk <address@hidden>
Cc: gnubg-list <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] Gnu backgammon
Message-ID:
        <CAHyhA=address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

It could be that it is a better player than you realize. Do you have a
match you can send us that demonstrates what you are claiming?

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Barb Pylatuk <address@hidden> wrote:
> This is the most frustrating game!  Whenever I am winning, gnu
> automatically starts hitting all my men all the time.  If I am losing
> and waiting to get on the board, gnu manages to clear all its men so
> that I can only get on at 4. Then, once I am on at 4 my rolls are
> double ones or one and three or some other nonsense so that I
> am guaranteed to lose.  Similarily, if I have gnu cornered it will roll
> doubles so it will get clear across the board on to its own side. The
> game is rigged to win. If I do win a game, and start another game it
> starts again to hit all my men all the time. If it is a close match and
> we are rolling to remove our men from the board, gnu is rolling doubles
> continually until it is off the board.
>
> I don't know why I keep playing.  I do not want to win every game but I
> certainly would expect a fair  chance.  Gnu does not offer that.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bug-gnubg mailing list
> address@hidden
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 08:59:56 +0000
From: Ian Shaw <address@hidden>
To: Barb Pylatuk <address@hidden>, "address@hidden"
        <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] Gnu backgammon
Message-ID:
        <address@hidden>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Bard,

I'm afraid gnubg does not cheat, so if you are losing a lot, it's because of your mistakes!

If you need to convince yourself that gnubg does not cheat, try two things in Settings, Options, Dice:
1) Play with manual dice, so that you enter the rolls yourself.
2) Set the seed for the random number generator to the same value (e.g. 1). You will see that the rolls follow a defined pattern, whatever the position. This proves that gnubg does not change the rolls to give itself good numbers and you bad ones. It will also always make the same move for a given position, which proves it does not take account of upcoming rolls.

I hope you overcome the frustration and grow to love gnu backgammon. It's a great tool for improving your game. I didn't realise how bad I was at backgammon until I started playing a really good opponent.

Try playing with the tutor mode on; see how often gnubg disagrees with your choice.

Regards,
Ian Shaw

-----Original Message-----
From: bug-gnubg-bounces+ian.shaw=address@hidden [mailto:bug-gnubg-bounces+ian.shaw=address@hidden] On Behalf Of Barb Pylatuk
Sent: 18 May 2015 20:34
To: address@hidden
Subject: [Bug-gnubg] Gnu backgammon

This is the most frustrating game!  Whenever I am winning, gnu automatically starts hitting all my men all the time.  If I am losing and waiting to get on the board, gnu manages to clear all its men so that I can only get on at 4. Then, once I am on at 4 my rolls are double ones or one and three or some other nonsense so that I am guaranteed to lose.  Similarily, if I have gnu cornered it will roll doubles so it will get clear across the board on to its own side. The game is rigged to win. If I do win a game, and start another game it starts again to hit all my men all the time. If it is a close match and we are rolling to remove our men from the board, gnu is rolling doubles continually until it is off the board.

I don't know why I keep playing.  I do not want to win every game but I certainly would expect a fair  chance.  Gnu does not offer that.

_______________________________________________
Bug-gnubg mailing list
address@hidden
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Bug-gnubg mailing list
address@hidden
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg


End of Bug-gnubg Digest, Vol 150, Issue 2
*****************************************