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Re: tcp/ip rewrite for summer of code

From: olafBuddenhagen
Subject: Re: tcp/ip rewrite for summer of code
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:43:40 +0100
User-agent: Mutt/1.5.17+20080114 (2008-01-14)


On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 05:50:37PM -0600, Joshua Stratton wrote:

> I'd still like some feedback from the Hurd developers about what they
> would like to see in the TCP/IP rewrite.

A bit of patience, please :-)

> From what I envision, it would be modular design of two or more
> translators (perhaps one for each protocol).

Yeah, that's the idea.

> I would personally like to know who works most with the networking
> stack now and what they would like to see in a TCP/IP rewrite.

Nobody really works on it -- that's why the task of rewriting it is open

> If you haven't read the paper Pierre posted, it's a very interesting
> model and I would like to know what those developers involved in the
> network stack like and don't like about it (
> http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~sarat/usenix-net-2004.ps<http://www.cs.jhu.edu/%7Esarat/usenix-net-2004.ps>).

I haven't read the paper yet. I saw a presentation Shapiro gave which
mentioned it among other things; but I didn't really understand most of

I'm vaguely familiar with Shapiro's concepts in general though, so I
think I can somewhat imagine what it is about.

It is certainly a fascinating design, but I fear it might be
problematic: It is created for a system like EROS -- that is, a pure
capability system; a system with very fast IPC primitives; a system
consequently sticking to POLA; a system using client-side allocation
throughout; and probably a few other things I can't think of right
now... All things that do not apply to the existing Hurd/Mach

It would be very interesting to see how this design could be transferred
to the Hurd/Mach framework -- I'd really like to know how flexible the
Hurd is in this regard. But that's probably not an easy task; it
requires good understanding of both EROS and Hurd/Mach concepts I guess.
Not really suitable for a GSoC student new to both...

Of course, it also depends on the mentor; if someone who is into such
stuff takes it up, it might be doable. I don't yet know who is willing
to mentor this task, though. If nobody else will, I would take it of
course; but I don't know much about networking, so I wouldn't be very
helpful on that side. I have a relatively good overview of most parts of
the Hurd by now I believe, but not too much in-depth knowledge. I think
I could come up with a design for the network stack using "traditional"
translator interfaces; I wouldn't know how to approach it with
client-side buffers, however -- but maybe that's only because I haven't
read the paper...

As I already mentioned in the comment for your application, I think you
best try to learn more about translators and the Mach packet filtering
over the next few days, and try to come up with a first draft design for
the interfaces between the individual layers. (Of course, you can ask us
for help if you have any specific questions :-) )

If you can use some of the ideas from the paper, fine; but if you
encounter problems, better drop that for now and use a simpler design...

You could still experiment with a more advanced design once SoC is over
:-) For SoC itself, I'd rather see an approach that offers a better
chance of yielding something usable...


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