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Re: Hiding nodes with unionmount

From: Arne Babenhauserheide
Subject: Re: Hiding nodes with unionmount
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 16:04:49 +0200
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Am Mittwoch, 5. August 2009 12:41:59 schrieb Sergiu Ivanov:
> AIUI, Zheng has a partially working implementation of rootless
> subhurd.  antrik asked him to make his changes public, even though
> they may not be the ones bringing around the complete functionality.

That would be nice. (As I understand it) subhurd is one of the things which 
really show the possibilities the Hurd offers, so having a user-subhurd is 
almost a requirement for being taken serious. 

> Yes, this is true.  I'd say the VCS filesystems topic should be
> revisited and thought over more attentively.  Committing at some
> intervals, dynamically adjusted to the disk load (like: ``commit more
> often when more operations are done'') could be a nice (and simple)
> solution for desktop systems.

Also a second layer could be added where userspace programs could trigger a 
"commit if Important mail received" or "commit if central config file changed"

> Indeed, having large diff sets trigger a commit should work nicely.

> Ah, you are probably talking about the index.  That's an interesting
> idea :-) Though I'd opt for using some temporary branches rather than
> the index.  This shouldn't be much slower, but will allow branch
> switches (although I cannot tell now whether this is necessary at all

Sounds also nice, and it would be compatible with using different VCS systems 
(like Mercurial). 

> > ouch, seems I suffered from the "why take the simple path, when we can
> > choose the hard one"-disease ;-)
> So, I'm not the only guy suffering from this? ;-)

Definitely not :) 

> In this case the package manager doesn't store the modifications.  It
> can only hide or show files, which allows the user to do only the rm
> operation, since creating a new configuration file may be, actually, a
> modification of the base one.  What should happen to customized system
> (configuration) files in this case?

They would simply be snapshot - no diffs saved, but only the new file. 

> > > Also, I'm
> Indeed, I somehow forgot about this detail.  Anyway, I still cannot
> see how a package manager could store modifications in files.  I think
> the only way would be to store the user modified files somewhere and
> make them cover the base files when setting mine.  (I think this is
> what your are suggesting and it's only now that I understand it :-( )


> Hm... I wonder how often the situation when a user does few
> modifications to system configuration files happens.  If we intend to
> make the user feel at home by using translator mine, it's very likely
> that they would like modify quite a lot in their system.

And then a VCS would be more useful, since it will save diskspace when we have 
many users and only smaller modifications, but to many files.  

> Indeed, a proper resource accounting framework might result in a
> complete isolation of different users.  So, let's port the Hurd to
> Viengoos ;-)

The state should be here (but isn't...): 

Some info might be here: 
- http://projectxoo.blogspot.com/

> Well, updates in the base system are a serious problem whatever
> mechanism of storing user data we choose.  The most fundamental issue
> is that use configuration files are bound to become outdated, if the
> user does not update the explicitly (and we aren't allowed to expect
> the user to do that), so it is anyway necessary to update user
> configuration files somehow.  I think that it is reasonable to allow
> the user to solve merge conflicts via something like dispatch-conf in
> Gentoo, but this is pretty orthogonal with the storage method: this
> approach could be implemented in both VCS and package manager
> approaches.


> I'll read these links today.  Sorry for not having read them so far --
> it's lack of time, as usual :-(

No problem. I know that problem far too well myself... 

Best wishes, 

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Ein Mann wird auf der Straße mit einem Messer bedroht. 
Zwei Polizisten sind sofort da und halten ein Transparent davor. 

        "Illegale Szene. Niemand darf das sehen."

Der Mann wird ausgeraubt, erstochen und verblutet, 
denn die Polizisten haben beide Hände voll zu tun. 

Willkommen in Deutschland. Zensur ist schön. 
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