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Re: NR 2.1.1: Lyric Tie and other languages

From: James
Subject: Re: NR 2.1.1: Lyric Tie and other languages
Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 08:57:00 +0100
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0


On 06/05/15 18:39, Simon Albrecht wrote:
Am 06.05.2015 um 09:06 schrieb James Lowe:
On 06/05/15 00:01, Simon Albrecht wrote:

<http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-vocal-music#multiple-syllables-to-one-note> has an example covering the use of LyricTie with Italian text. Using the
same feature with German text (and probably other languages too), or
more accurately, with multiple syllables of the same word, requires
overriding word-space, so I suggest to add the following after the
current example (i.e. after line 611/12 in vocal.itely, unless I’m

If the syllables belong to one word, it is necessary to override
word space.

     a4 a g c b8[( a]) b4 a2 \breathe
     \bar "" \break
     a4 c d4. c8 d4 e c2
   \addlyrics {
     Er ging aus der Kam -- mer sein,
     \markup \override #'(word-space . 0)
     \tied-lyric #"kö~nig" -- li -- chen
     Saal so rein,
@end lilypond

Best regards, Simon

bug-lilypond mailing list

Thanks Simon, is there any reason

1. We require the \cadenzaOn (for the sake of simplifying the example as
much as possible in the doc)?
No. I just used the real-world example posted on -user yesterday. If you think it matters, you may well substitute a more ‘technical’ example, or remove everything except for ‘königlichen’ and its three notes. I’d say that the appeal of the example outweighs the after all still small space it takes, however.

If we're going to add something in the Doc as an example we need to keep it as pared down as much possible, that was why I asked if \cadenzaOn was needed. While it may only take a small space, we have thousands of examples all taking a small space, which adds up. But mainly if we're illustrating something to the users, we just need to remove any distractions. I don't have any experience using Lyrics in LilyPond so this is really all outside my knowlegde and I have to rely on those that do use Lyrics to give the more technical example or perhaps an alternative/simpler example.

2. Is it *always* necessary to override the word space in the case of
when syllables belong to one word or is this

i. a specific type of case
I wouldn’t say so. Of course, there are instances where the same goal is achieved through a second voice containing two eighth notes and two separate LyricSyllables aligned to the temporary voice. But if the setup is as in the example (which makes sense especially if there are multiple stanzas, and occurs more frequently in ancient music), the override is necessary.

OK. Could you give me an example of this second voice scenario? It might be something we could add as well as just the override.

Again, we try to avoid overrides in the doc wherever possible - unless it is the only or simplest way - as there are often a dozen different ways to achieve certain effects and the Notation Reference would be overwhelmed with hacks and overrides (anything really fancy often ends up in the LilyPond Snippet Repository).

ii. are there any other ways to do this without using an '\override'
Not _if_ one wants the tie.

Ah OK, so there is a specific case use - that's good to know as it helps clarify the snippet when adding to the doc.

(except for the code in issue 3088, but that doesn’t yet count IMO.)

No it doesn't. Until it is fixed and then someone tells us that example X in the doc no longer applies - and then it is removed.

Of course it’s possible to just write könig -- li -- chen and hope that it’s clear enough without the tie. But it’s somewhat common to use the tie and it eases reading.

That's OK I am sure there are other words that other lyricists would use that run into the same problem.



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