Re: NR 2.1.1: Lyric Tie and other languages

[Simon Albrecht]

Hello James,

Am 07.05.2015 um 09:57 schrieb James:
> Simon,
>
> On 06/05/15 18:39, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> > Am 06.05.2015 um 09:06 schrieb James Lowe:
> > > On 06/05/15 00:01, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > <http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-vocal-music#multiple-syllables-to-one-note> 
> > > >
> > > > has an example covering the use of LyricTie with Italian text. 
> > > > Using the
> > > > same feature with German text (and probably other languages too), or
> > > > more accurately, with multiple syllables of the same word, requires
> > > > overriding word-space, so I suggest to add the following after the
> > > > current example (i.e. after line 611/12 in vocal.itely, unless I’m
> > > > mistaken):
> > > >
> > > > "
> > > > If the syllables belong to one word, it is necessary to override
> > > > word space.
> > > >
> > > > @lilypond[quote,ragged-right,verbatim,relative=2]
> > > > <<
> > > >    {
> > > >      \cadenzaOn
> > > >      a4 a g c b8[( a]) b4 a2 \breathe
> > > >      \bar "" \break
> > > >      a4 c d4. c8 d4 e c2
> > > >    }
> > > >    \addlyrics {
> > > >      Er ging aus der Kam -- mer sein,
> > > >      dem
> > > >      \markup \override #'(word-space . 0)
> > > >      \tied-lyric #"kö~nig" -- li -- chen
> > > >      Saal so rein,
> > > >    }
> > > > @end lilypond
> > > > "
> > > >
> > > > Best regards, Simon
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > bug-lilypond mailing list
> > > > address@hidden
> > > > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
> > >
> > > Thanks Simon, is there any reason
> > >
> > > 1. We require the \cadenzaOn (for the sake of simplifying the 
> > > example as
> > > much as possible in the doc)?
> > No. I just used the real-world example posted on -user yesterday. If 
> > you think it matters, you may well substitute a more ‘technical’ 
> > example, or remove everything except for ‘königlichen’ and its three 
> > notes. I’d say that the appeal of the example outweighs the after all 
> > still small space it takes, however.
>
> If we're going to add something in the Doc as an example we need to 
> keep it as pared down as much possible, that was why I asked if 
> \cadenzaOn was needed. While it may only take a small space, we have 
> thousands of examples all taking a small space, which adds up. But 
> mainly if we're illustrating something to the users, we just need to 
> remove any distractions. I don't have any experience using Lyrics in 
> LilyPond so this is really all outside my knowlegde and I have to rely 
> on those that do use Lyrics to give the more technical example or 
> perhaps an alternative/simpler example.
See first score in attachment.
Sorry for needless insisting.
> > > 2. Is it *always* necessary to override the word space in the case of
> > > when syllables belong to one word or is this
> > >
> > > i. a specific type of case
> > I wouldn’t say so. Of course, there are instances where the same goal 
> > is achieved through a second voice containing two eighth notes and 
> > two separate LyricSyllables aligned to the temporary voice. But if 
> > the setup is as in the example (which makes sense especially if there 
> > are multiple stanzas, and occurs more frequently in ancient music), 
> > the override is necessary.
>
> OK. Could you give me an example of this second voice scenario? It 
> might be something we could add as well as just the override.
See second score in the attachment – that one’s much more involved.
> Again, we try to avoid overrides in the doc wherever possible - unless 
> it is the only or simplest way - as there are often a dozen different 
> ways to achieve certain effects and the Notation Reference would be 
> overwhelmed with hacks and overrides  (anything really fancy often 
> ends up in the LilyPond Snippet Repository).
It’s an alternative, of course, to place this in the Selected Snippets 
section. I’d be fine with that.

Yours, Simon

lyr-tie?.ly
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