Re: i18n problems in texinfo

[Christian Rose]

Christian Rose wrote:
> BUG 2
> -----
> info/infodoc.c:45
> 
>   N_("Basic Commands in Info Windows\n"),
>   N_("******************************\n"),
> 
> These messages are highly dependant on each other and belong with each
> other, since the length of the second one has to exactly match the first
> one. Thus it makes no sense to mark them for separate translation. If
> they are translated seperately, they will most likely not match each
> other's length.
> Here is my suggestion:
> 
>   N_("Basic Commands in Info Windows\n"
>      "******************************\n"),
> 
> BUGS 3,4,5
> ----------
> info/infodoc.c:52
> info/infodoc.c:61
> info/infodoc.c:75
> 
> The same problems as in bug 2, just on different places.
> 
> BUG 6
> -----
> info/infodoc.c:79
> 
>   N_("  %-10s  Search for a specified string in the index entries of
> this Info\n"),
>   N_("              file, and select the node referenced by the first
> entry found.\n"),
> 
> Please don't split a single sentence like this in multiple messages, use
> one single message instead. Sentences have to be kept together when
> translating, you can't split a sentence into parts and mark them for
> separate translation and expect it to work with word ordering, grammar,
> and everything else in other languages. Splitting sentences just makes
> it harder for translators when having not just to translate, but also
> puzzle the pieces of the sentence together again so that it makes some
> sense, in order to be able to translate in the first place, and then
> split the translated sentence in parts in several messages so that it
> matches the original sentence's split-up.
> Here is my suggestion:
> 
>   N_("  %-10s  Search for a specified string in the index entries of
> this Info\n"
>      "              file, and select the node referenced by the first
> entry found.\n"),
> 
> BUGS 7,8
> --------
> info/infodoc.c:83
> info/infodoc.c:85
> 
> The same problems as in bug 6, just in other places.

I don't know if there was some misunderstanding here, I assume there was
(I might never know as I haven't recieved any response to the former bug
report mail).

The problem wasn't that the entire help text is split up -- that in
itself is not a problem, on the contrary, it makes translation possible.
Translating large screenfuls of text in one big message is a true
disaster for gettext translation, it makes it much harder to actually
translate, and when it comes to detecting changes in the messages it
turns into a true disaster. "Unmaintainable" is the proper word.
So the splitup was definately OK in general, the problems I mentioned
were very specific -- some underlining should belong to their title as
they should be translated together, and some sentences should belong to
just one message, not be cut in several. But otherwise, "one help text
-- one message" was OK.

Now, this appears to have been changed into:

#: info/infodoc.c:47
msgid ""
"Basic Commands in Info Windows\n"
"******************************\n"
"\n"
"  \\%-10[quit-help]  Quit this help.\n"
"  \\%-10[quit]  Quit Info altogether.\n"
"  \\%-10[get-info-help-node]  Invoke the Info tutorial.\n"
"\n"
"Selecting other nodes:\n"
"----------------------\n"
"  \\%-10[next-node]  Move to the \"next\" node of this node.\n"
"  \\%-10[prev-node]  Move to the \"previous\" node of this node.\n"
"  \\%-10[up-node]  Move \"up\" from this node.\n"
"  \\%-10[menu-item]  Pick menu item specified by name.\n"
"              Picking a menu item causes another node to be
selected.\n"
"  \\%-10[xref-item]  Follow a cross reference.  Reads name of
reference.\n"
"  \\%-10[history-node]  Move to the last node seen in this window.\n"
"  \\%-10[move-to-next-xref]  Skip to next hypertext link within this
node.\n"
"  \\%-10[move-to-prev-xref]  Skip to previous hypertext link within
this node.\n"
"  \\%-10[select-reference-this-line]  Follow the hypertext link under
cursor.\n"
"  \\%-10[dir-node]  Move to the `directory' node.  Equivalent to
`\\[goto-node] (DIR)'.\n"
"  \\%-10[top-node]  Move to the Top node.  Equivalent to `\\[goto-node]
Top'.\n"
"\n"
"Moving within a node:\n"
"---------------------\n"
"  \\%-10[scroll-forward]  Scroll forward a page.\n"
"  \\%-10[scroll-backward]  Scroll backward a page.\n"
"  \\%-10[beginning-of-node]  Go to the beginning of this node.\n"
"  \\%-10[end-of-node]  Go to the end of this node.\n"
"  \\%-10[1scroll-forward]  Scroll forward 1 line.\n"
"  \\%-10[1scroll-backward]  Scroll backward 1 line.\n"
"\n"
"Other commands:\n"
"---------------\n"
"  \\%-10[menu-digit]  Pick first ... ninth item in node's menu.\n"
"  \\%-10[last-menu-item]  Pick last item in node's menu.\n"
"  \\%-10[index-search]  Search for a specified string in the index
entries of this Info\n"
"              file, and select the node referenced by the first entry
found.\n"
"  \\%-10[goto-node]  Move to node specified by name.\n"
"              You may include a filename as well, as in
(FILENAME)NODENAME.\n"
"  \\%-10[search]  Search forward through this Info file for a specified
string,\n"
"              and select the node in which the next occurrence is
found.\n"
"  \\%-10[search-backward]  Search backward in this Info file for a
specified string,\n"
"              and select the node in which the next occurrence is
found.\n"

In other words, one giant message blurb. This is not what I suggested,
this is ten times worse than the original problems I mentioned, and
entirely unmaintainable translation-wise. Please consider going back to
the previous design, with the specific changes I mentioned.


Cheers
Christian