RE: Should the mode line extend under the scroll bar?

[Drew Adams]

Just to clarify (I sent an update to bug-gnu-emacs, but not to this list):

Some of what I described below was due to a bug that I have not been able to
reproduce. In particular:

 - Forget about the "Attempt to drag leftmost scrollbar" bug.
 - Forget too about the complaint that the drag handle is in the wrong place
(too far to the right).

The points I want to make are just these:

 - The drag handles are not obvious (they appear only on mouseover) and are
difficult to grab (at least on Windows).

 - Grabbing a drag handle selects and activates the mode line (to its
left) - an irrelevant side effect.

Emacs 20:                 Emacs 21:

       M       M                 M       M
       M       M                 M       M
       M       M                 M       M
XXXXXXX.ZZZZZZZ.          XXXXXXXXZZZZZZZZ

The squares where the `.' are were visible drag handles for the windows.

And the `.' for a one-window-p window could do something else useful like
resize the frame to fit the window buffer.


-----Original Message-----
From: address@hidden
[mailto:address@hidden Behalf Of
Richard Stallman
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 6:19 PM
To: address@hidden
Subject: Should the mode line extend under the scroll bar?


The change that was made in how far the mode line extends
has practical effects that this user is unhappy with.
what do others think?

From: "Drew Adams" <address@hidden>
...

In Emacs 20, the mode line did not extend under a vertical scroll bar (or
under a vertical line) -- there was a small (~4mm) square that you could
drag with the mouse to resize the window.

In Emacs 21, this small but visible "drag handle" has disappeared. If you
position the mouse _very_ carefully along the mode line at the window
division, you can grab and drag the divider. However, this effective drag
handle is _very_ small and not obvious at all (only the cursor change
indicates its presence).

Also, if you have two horizontally adjacent windows and try to drag the
divider, you actually need to place the mouse slightly to the right of the
divider, so that it is well over the right mode line, not the left (even
though it is the left mode line that extends under the scroll bar). This is
not intuitive at all.

If you try to grab & drag directly under the scroll bar (as in Emacs 20),
you grab the left mode line, and nothing happens (no drag cursor). If you
grab slightly to the right of this, at the right edge of the scroll bar, in
the modeline (that is, _at_ the vertical line that separates the windows),
then you see the drag cursor (so everything looks OK), but you also get this
error message: "Attempt to drag leftmost scrollbar".

There is no reason for this. Intuitively, that is just what you _want_ to
do: drag the "leftmost" scrollbar - that is, drag the only vertical
separation you see between the two windows. You certainly don't want to (and
cannot) drag the _rightmost_ scrollbar/vertical line!

To be able to drag the vertical line, you must in fact grab it slightly to
the right of the visible vertical line, that is, to the right of the right
edge of the scroll bar, so that you are well over the right mode line. The
proper position appears to be at the right edge of the fringe! Dragging here
also activates the right mode line, for no reason that I can see. All of
this is not very intuitive.


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