Re: dash.el [was: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs]

[Phillip Lord]

Eli Zaretskii <address@hidden> writes:

>> From: Phillip Lord <address@hidden>
>> Cc: Stefan Monnier <address@hidden>,  address@hidden,
>>   address@hidden,  address@hidden,  address@hidden,
>>   address@hidden
>> Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 18:30:18 +0100
>> 
>> Perhaps, if the people doing this work saw that their work was
>> gratefully accepted, and allowed to continue doing it with the minimum
>> of fuss and not too much design by committee, then they would continue
>> doing it.
>
> Is this what you think of how I'm doing my job for Emacs?  All I'm
> doing here, most of the time, is make sure the code we get from
> various contributions is up to our standards.  You seem to be saying
> that I'm harming the project by doing so, because that drives the
> contributors away.  Would you like me to step down?


Eli

No, I wouldn't want you to step down, and this was not directed
specifically at you. Overall, emacs-devel is a fairly conservative
place, though. That, combined with a slow and onerous copyright
assignment proceedure (proceedure not policy: the proceedure could be
fixed without changing policy), means that the ecosystem outside core is
richer than inside.

I believe that this produces a relatively poor new user
experience. Tools like magit, or CIDER draw people in; and for
developers of Emacs packages dash.el does the same. But people have to
know that they are there; as it stands, a new developer picking Emacs
would assuming it does not do Clojure, or Rust, or GO, or
autocompletion, or lsp. I watch my students faced with Emacs and this is
just too much of a struggle.

I understand why you worry about code quality, and this is valid. I
think most of Magnar's code has proven itself; the usage stats speak for
themselves. If packages like this do not meet Emacs standards, perhaps,
this it is Emacs standards that need to change to fit.

Phil