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Re: When will emacs 27.1 be officially released?
From: |
Tassilo Horn |
Subject: |
Re: When will emacs 27.1 be officially released? |
Date: |
Fri, 03 Jul 2020 09:24:43 +0200 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) |
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> What would also be nice was a way to write something like
>>
>> @IncludeEmacsDefunDocs{my-function}{lisp/my.el}
>>
>> which would be replaced by
>>
>> @defun my-function arg
>> Docstring of my-function where ARG is replaced with @{arg}.
>> @end defun
>>
>> because at least in the Elisp manual, most function and variable
>> descriptions are (almost) identical to the corresponding docstrings
>> anyway.
>
> I think "most" and "almost identical" is inaccurate here. IME, most
> of the descriptions in the manual are quite different from the doc
> strings.
It's an exaggeration for sure. But I think we can settle on "they carry
the same information using different writing styles." Well, for
commands the manual is usually much simpler relying on the fact that the
`interactive' spec guides the user through the proper usage. But I'm
talking more about the technical Elisp manual.
> Doc strings have some limitations you need to observe: the first line
> has to be a complete sentence and should mention the arguments; the
> text should be short enough; there are some subtle rules for
> referencing symbols that shouldn't produce hyperlinks; etc. Living
> with these limitations in the manual as well will produce suboptimal
> text, IMO.
I think the docstring rules aren't bad for the manual per-se and the
formatting rules can probably be transformed to equivalent texinfo
constructs.
> The (quite extreme, IMO) result of doing what you propose is the GNU
> Guile manual: the Guile build procedure "snarfs" the doc strings from
> the source code and produces 90% of the manual's text from them. The
> result is not a very good manual, at least IMO. Just compare it with
> the ELisp manual, and make your own conclusions about quality.
I didn't have a look yet but I didn't want to suggest that our manuals
be only collection of docstrings! But at least in the more technical
documentation like the Elisp manual I see no big problem in embedding
them _while still_ surrounding them with prose and examples (as we
already do).
> And then there's the user manual, where the doc strings are definitely
> not the way to go, I hope you will agree.
Yes, I do.
>> BTW, I just looked at the docs and it seems that in large parts the
>> function descriptions in the manual read
>>
>> This function takes a @var{coin} and returns a @var{beer}.
>>
>> (indicative) whereas the docstring reads
>>
>> Take a COIN and return a BEER.
>>
>> (imperative). I know the latter is our convention for function
>> docstrings. Is the former our convention for documenting functions
>> in the manual?
>
> Yes. Just one of those minor stylistic differences that make the
> manual a good reading, whereas the doc strings are terse and
> functional.
Agreed, but still work some might find unnecessary or burdensome. I
mean, we're hackers no English linguists, frequently not even native
speakers. ;-)
And to make it clear: I'm actually in favor of a "no major change
without appropriate documentation" policy. I'm just looking for
possibilities to make that easier. For example, such a hypothetical
@IncludeEmacsDefunDocs thingy could also act the same way as a missing
+++ in NEWS where someone else could replace that placeholder later with
stylistically correct manual documentation.
Bye,
Tassilo
- Re: When will emacs 27.1 be officially released?, (continued)
Re: When will emacs 27.1 be officially released?, Tassilo Horn, 2020/07/02
- Re: When will emacs 27.1 be officially released?, Paul Eggert, 2020/07/02
- Re: When will emacs 27.1 be officially released?, Tassilo Horn, 2020/07/02
- Re: When will emacs 27.1 be officially released?, Richard Stallman, 2020/07/03
- Re: When will emacs 27.1 be officially released?, Eli Zaretskii, 2020/07/04
- Re: When will emacs 27.1 be officially released?, Richard Stallman, 2020/07/04
- Re: When will emacs 27.1 be officially released?, Eli Zaretskii, 2020/07/05
Re: When will emacs 27.1 be officially released?, Eli Zaretskii, 2020/07/03