Re: [External] : Re: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package

[Tim Cross]

<tomas@tuxteam.de> writes:

> [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]]
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 10:24:10AM +1000, Tim Cross wrote:
>> 
>> Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>> 
>> >> > I find it jarring when people throw in the very verbose org format
>> >> > for source blocks.
>> >> 
>> >> How would you delimit a source block?
>> >
>> > Dunno what OP had in mind, but if, as for
>> > the context of my comment, there's no need
>> > to delimit it, then, well ... no need to
>> > delimit it.
>> >
>> > Maybe it's a habit.  Dunno.
>> 
>> I suspect there are likely a number of contributing factors, including 
>
> [good insights]
>
>> I still think the worst thing that ever happened to email was moving
>> away from plain text and allowing HTML. Unfortunately, HTML has now
>> become so ubiquitous in email, people now see plain text as 'old' or
>> 'primitive'. There is also the issue that most people tend to use
>> proportional fonts these days, so the old days of being able to create OK
>> formatted tabular data in plain text are gone - you need HTML now. 
>
> Definitely.
>
>> As to the verbosity or jarring nature of #+begin_src/#+end_src as
>> delimiters - I really just don't notice them. I guess that after years
>> of reading config files and using programming languages with too much
>> boiler plate code, I've developed the skill to easily ignore such
>> trivial constructs. 
>
> But that's the point. To some people, obviously, #+begin_foo is at
> least as jarring as HTML markup seems to us (I'm not talking about
> sick Microsoft markup, where 3/4 of the file is fonts and CSS, that's
> even worse. I'm talking about somewhat "readable" HTML, some renderers
> try to do this).
>
>> Of course, if your using emacs, it is reasonably trivial to make them
>> less intrusive with various font locking techniques. If your not using
>> Emacs for your email, well I guess that is what happens when you use an
>> inferior solutions ;-) If you are using emacs and haven't bothered doing
>> anything to reduce the jarring nature, I guess it isn't that bad an itch
>> after all.
>
> I think here we are at the core of the conflict. "Well, duh, use Emacs"
> (and implicitly: "use Org mode") is akin to "well, duh, use a browser".
>
> As fond as I am of Org myself (I admitted in this thread to writing
> it by hand without mode support), I think expecting people to follow
> suit is bound to create this conflict.
>
> No, to me, Org markup isn't jarring. But I can perfectly well relate
> to this feeling.
>
> I think, at this point it would be much wiser to take a step back
> and think about a solution instead of just repeating "but Org is
> better" :-)
>
> Cheers

I think you missed my point. For the record, I was not implying "Just
use org". I was suggesting that if your using Emacs, there are numerous
things you can do to reduce the 'jarring' nature of org block syntax in
email messages (such as using font-lock to alter the appearance and
reduce that impact. However, if your not using something as powerful as
Emacs to read your email, your likely screwed and if you are, but have
done nothing to reduce the visual jarring/offence of org block syntax,
then it obviously isn't as common or offensive to motivate you using
that powerful editor to change the situation. 

at no point did I say or imply the only solution was to use org mode.
Instead, I was simply pointing out there are some good reasons some
people will use it and there are some advantages with Emacs mail readers
(such as font-lock source code snippets). The implication is that it
isn't going away, so either you have to put up with it or you have to
find a way to reduce its impact and Emacs provides a wealth of
functionality to do the latter. 

of course there is also the option to just complain about it, which is
easy, but doesn't change a lot.