Is there a need for a module system

[Gerd Möllmann]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 11:26:45 +0100
>> Cc: eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> From: Gerd Möllmann <gerd.moellmann@gmail.com>
>> 
>> I was asking specifically about shorthands wrt to their use as a module 
>> replacement, and I think tomas replied in that context.
>
> The shorthands were added for a specific purpose that should be clear
> from those discussions.  It can also be used as a "poor-man's
> packaging system", and some contend that it is more than enough for
> that purpose.

That's what I wanted to know more about.  Specifically, the whys and
hows.

> But that's not why we added it, and I don't necessarily
> agree with the opinions which consider shorthands to be a basis for
> Emacs package system, let alone a good one.

Ok.

> Moreover, from my POV, the jury is still out on the question of
> whether we at all need packages in Emacs.  "Programming in the large"
> doesn't sound very relevant to how Emacs Lisp is used.  It is not a GP
> language for writing programs, it is a language for writing Emacs
> applications.  The largest Emacs Lisp applications -- Gnus and Org --
> are nowhere near the bar which I'd consider to be "programming in the
> large".

Ok, here's a new thread, because that's interesting, and something I
don't agree with.

The reason being that I think one cannot look at specific Lisp programs
like gnus or org in isolation. If I look at Melpa, it says it has 5299
packages.  Add GNU Elpa, for which I couldn't readily find the number,
and Emacs' Lisp, and subtract what's in common.  That's pretty large
from my POV.

> I may change my mind, of course, but I didn't yet see any cogent
> explanation of why we would need packages in Emacs.  People just tend
> to consider it self-evident, like some axiom.

Need is a strong requirement.  Do we need it now?  Obviously no, it's
working using naming schemes, more or less as dash.el and s.el show.

I'd rather ask is that a good enough solution?  Can we do better?  Is it
worth the effort?  Can it be done in the first place?  Does it perhaps
enable additional things?

Opinions welcome.