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Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways

From: Emanuel Berg
Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 03:20:18 +0200
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13)

Björn Bidar wrote:

>>> But all this is not really relevant for the code that you
>>> (or any one of us) write for their own personal use, it is
>>> only relevant to code contributed to Emacs.
>> But we don't know what people who are starting to write
>> Elisp today for their personal use go on to contribute to
>> Emacs packages that make it to the ELPAs, or core Emacs for
>> that matter. That whole distinction does not make any sense
>> to me. If it is harmful, which it isn't, no one should use
>> it and it doesn't matter in what context, be it personal
>> use, ELPA packages, core Emacs, compile time, run time -
>> what does it matter?
> From my point of view in some way it does sound like that
> some are against it for ideological reasons rather than
> technical. E.g. those that makes code unreadable or lets
> rewrite something to drop the dependency to not load it.
> It does sound like a generational conflict, newer developers
> write code sometimes different than older ones. Why not use
> cl-lib when it makes it easier to achieve what I want easier
> and easier to understand than "vanilla" elisp. But as other
> said, this wasn't the point of the thread even when some
> messages did sound very ideological.

Exactly, that's the way it sounds.

>> On the other hand if it _is_ useful - and the number of
>> people using it and the number of files where it is used,
>> and the number of occurrences indicate that it is - there
>> is no reason to disencourage people from using
>> it, anywhere.
> I think these things are also often a long the lines we
> don't want you to use thing XX for a reason, so discourage
> them from even mentioning it. Ideological vs practicism.

Again, exactly. Only it is difficult to pinpoint what is the
ideology or set of thoughts that drives the anti-cl-lib

As for practicality, I think that has been showed many times
over by now, not the least in the amount of usage already
present in Emacs. There is no going around that, contributors
to Emacs have already voted with their fingers in favor of

underground experts united

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