Re: Installing cond* in core

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Stefan.

On Sat, Jan 27, 2024 at 16:26:17 -0800, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:

> > Can you further confirm that there will be no technical advantages given
> > to pcase over cond*?

> I see cond* as an alternative to pcase for those that prefer it.
> This is one consequence of deciding not to get rid of pcase.

> > In particular, that condstar.el will be in lisp/emacs-lisp,

> We didn't discuss that.  I'd put it in lisp/, myself.

That would make it unusable early in the bootstrap, putting it at a
disadvantage to pcase.

> > and that it will be available from early mid-bootstrap onwards, just
> > as pcase is?

> We didn't discuss that.  It sounds like a separate change from adding
> cond* to core, and I'm not sure it makes sense to commit to it off-hand,
> without first understanding the details.

> In general, there is no point to loading something early unless it is
> used early.  Do you have something more specific in mind?

Yes.  I outlined a few days ago my idea of tidying up the bootstrap
process by using cond* in macroexp.el, thus allowing the files loaded by
loadup.el to be in a more natural order.  This idea was vetoed by Eli,
at least for the moment.  But it seems like a good idea not to rule out
similar changes in the future.

> > On this point, it's worth noting that pcase was silently slipped into
> > Emacs in the dead of night without any public discussion, and was then
> > widely proliferated through working code, again without discussion.
> > That has relevance to "alienation", and goes some way towards explaining
> > my attitude towards cond* and pcase.

> I can't speak to that, as I wasn't around.

> I would propose that we start looking forward, and go back to working on
> the things that we enjoy and find interesting.  That's likely to be more
> productive than discussing the details of how things happened or didn't
> happen 14 years ago.

The events of 14 years ago have a profound influence on the present and
future.  I'm somewhat disappointed that the solution you've come up with
for cond* is not going to help me at all, though I understand how and
why you made it.  It's basically leave things as they are and ignore
cond*.  In ten years time, I'm still going to be faced with inscrutable
pcases when debugging code, and that will still slow me down just as
much as it does today.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).