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Re: [Orgmode] Re: [ANN] Org-babel integrated into Org-mode


From: Carsten Dominik
Subject: Re: [Orgmode] Re: [ANN] Org-babel integrated into Org-mode
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 11:27:37 +0200

Hi Matt, hi Eric,

Matt, thanks a lot for bringing this up.  This is indeed a very
important and serious issue.  We need to address it.  We need to
step back and reconsider this carefully.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely think that Org Babel should give
you enough rope to hang yourself.  But we have to make sure that
this will not happen to a happy and unsuspecting Org mode, or even
an unsuspecting Emacs user who by chance opens a file with extension .org.

I remember very well when  first realized that shell links could
really affect you badly.  It scared me.

You main proposal was to make Org Babel an optional module.
This will not solve the problem fully, I think, because we also
don't want that people who turn it on automatically commit
to potentially dangerous operations.  There is a lot of good stuff
in Babel which has nothing to do with code evaluation.

Here is what I propose (several items are similar to what Eric proposes)

1. A new variable org-turn-on-babel.  We can discuss the default.
   If it is nil, org-babel should not be loaded.
   A default of t would be fine with me if we implement other
   measures listed below.

2. As Eric proposes, a variable similar to org-confirm-shell-link- function
   This should by default query for confirmation on any org-babel
   code execution, and can be configured to shut up by people who know
   what they are doing.

3. Not loading emacs lisp evaluation by default.

4. A new key in the babel keymap for org-babel-execute-code-block,
   for example `C-c C-v e'.  This should be documented as the default
   key for this operation.

5. Removing org-babel-execute-code-block from `C-c C-c'.  Inclusion
   should be optional.

6. A section in the manual on code execution and associated security
   risks in Org mode.  This is not only about babel, but also about
   org-eval, org-eval-light, shell links and elisp links.  I have meant
   to write this section for a long time and would be willing to
   draft it. We could then refer to this section from a couple of
   places in the docs, without cluttering the docs with disclaimers.

The reason for 4 and 5 is that I believe Org-mode users are trained
to blindly press `C-c C-c' whenever they want to update something at
point.  Matt's example of a blog post about `rm -rf' is a very
realistic example for bad code being evaluated by mistake, not even
due to malicious cations.  I belive that a special key for this
action would gove a good measure of protection.

This is what I think - please let me know if you think I am overdoing it.

- Carsten


On Jun 29, 2010, at 8:23 PM, Matt Lundin wrote:

Hi Eric,

Thanks again for all the work that you, Dan, and Tom have put into
org-babel. I'm glad to see it become part of org-mode!

"Eric Schulte" <address@hidden> writes:

2) Babel will now be loaded by default along with the rest of Org- mode. This means that *everyone* currently using babel will need to change
  their Emacs config and remove the (require 'org-babel-int) and/or
  (require 'org-babel) lines.

I would like to request that org-babel be made an optional module. I ask
this as someone who uses org-babel regularly. Here are my reasons:

- Org-babel adds rather specific and complex functionality to org- mode
   that those who use it as a simple outliner and todo manager do not
require. (In other words, an option to turn it off might be nice for
   those who are worried about "feature creep.")

 - Org-babel increases the risk of accidentally executing malicious or
   dangerous code when typing C-c C-c on a src block or exporting a
   file. Perhaps users should activate it only after they understand
   the risks.

   + For instance, I might write a blog post warning about the dangers
     of typing "rm -rf ~/". If I put this between #+begin_src sh
and #+end_src and unthinkingly hit C-c C-c, I would be in trouble.
     I believe this is the reason for the variables
     org-confirm-shell-link-function and
     org-confirm-elisp-link-function.

   + This is admitted a bit far-fetched as an example, as it would
     require one to have loaded ob-sh.el. But since elisp execution is
     activated by default, there remain opportunities for unwittingly
     executing code that is meant for other purposes (e.g., warnings,
     examples, etc.).

  Support for evaluating emacs-lisp code blocks is loaded by default.
All other languages will need to be required explicitly. To conform to Emacs filename specifications all language require lines have been
  shortened from e.g.

  (require 'org-babel-sh)

  to

  (require 'ob-sh)

When I run make clean && make && make install I find that the language
directory is not installed. Does the langs directory require a manual
installation?

Also, with make install, the ob-* files are installed on the same level as the org-files, yet lines 108-114 in org.el indicate that they should
be installed in a babel subdirectory.

Thanks!
Matt

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- Carsten






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