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Re: [O] [RFC] Change some defcustoms into defcont


From: Carsten Dominik
Subject: Re: [O] [RFC] Change some defcustoms into defcont
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 12:26:41 +0200

On 21.10.2013, at 10:56, Nicolas Goaziou <address@hidden> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Carsten Dominik <address@hidden> writes:
> 
>> I think this change breaks user setups.  I don't know how many
>> people do change these keywords, but I know some do, if
>> only for localization purposes.  I myself have modified the
>> archive keyword in some cases, if I use this feature for a
>> different purpose.
> 
> I don't think it breaks their setup, since you can do:
> 
>  (setq org-deadline-string "SOMETHING:")

Yes.  But in particular the less well versed users will likely
have used customize.

> 
> Of course, if they change it with `custom-set-variables', they will have
> to change it.
> 
>> You probably want to do this to make Org syntax less fragile.  
> 
> Correct.
> 
>> However, I think it can also be achieved by leaving these as defcustom
>> and discouraging changes in the docstring with a standard sentence
>> about about deprecation.
> 
> That's exactly the point of the defconst: you can still modify the
> variable, but it sends a strong message to the user. Also, it's not
> about deprecation: code base should still rely on these variables.

This is where I disagree.  I think the Emacs implementation of defconst
is broken, and retained in this way only for backward compatibility.
If we still allow users to edit this in principle, I do not think we
should make these variables defconst.  If editing is not
even depreciated, there is even less reason to make this change.
How about we add a sentence like this:

Changing this variable may cause compatibility problems with other users
trying to edit your file in Emacs.

> 
>> Your most important argument to me seems about efficiency of cashing.
>> We can fix this by providing :set methods for the customize entries
>> that will trigger global cache erasing, so that you do not need to
>> programmatically check this all the time.
> 
> I know, and I still have to do it for variables like
> `org-todo-keywords', which are meant to be modified.
> 
> My main concern is about core Org syntax.

- Carsten



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