Re: [O] [POLL] Should Org tempo be enabled by default? (expand templates thru e.g. "<s[TAB]")

[Bastien]

Hi Tim,

thanks for your thorough and balanced feedback.

Tim Cross <address@hidden> writes:

> There is no solution which will make everyone happy. However, as a long
> term org user who hopes to continue using org for many more years, I
> tend to come down on the side of whatever will make org easier to
> maintain in the long term.

For org-tempo, Rasmus wrote it so I'm inclined to listen quite
carefully at his opinion.

> I think org itself should provide a very stable core and avoid
> incorporating too many add on enhancements.

I agree too.  But outline would have stayed something that nobody
cares about until Org came, enhancing the outline experience.  And I
guess tempo.el, something that RMS wrote in 1995, would stay unknown
until more users are exposed through it via org-tempo.el...

So I don't see org-tempo.el as something that adds extra burden: it
is a reasonable reuse of some core (underknown) Emacs functionality.

> Consequently, I'm not going to enable org-tempo, instead going for
> re-training of my fingers to use the new C-c ' binding.

You certainly mean C-c C-,  :)

> So in basic terms, I agree with Nicholas' position. Having said that, I
> do feel he is being optimistic/pragmatic and Bastien's concerns are very
> valid.

To give some context: I've run a few Emacs friendly workshops in Paris
(France) since the last few months.  French readers can check them
here: https://www.emacs-doctor.com/emacs-paris-user-group/

All the discussions have been really eye-opening to me in terms of
usability.  I could not believe Emacs users with 10 years of Emacs-fu
would not know text-scale-increase, or M-<left/right> in Org's table,
or whatever.  They could not believe I was ignoring X, Y, Z.  And
*many* of them were so frustrated with Org's installation experience
and some "missing" features from one version to another... hearing
these complaints face to face face something.

Yes, from an individual point of view, adding (require 'org-tempo) is
nothing but I've tangible feedback of the pain such change can induce
for other users.

Here is what the experience can look like:

- Upgrading Emacs or Org (hurray!!)
- Trying to hit <s as usual one month after the upgrade
- Thinking your stupid
- Bisecting your configuration file to see if something changed
- Trying to remember to name of the command for <[key][tab]
- Not finding the name of the command
- Thinking your stupid
- Remembering you upgraded Org
- Not remembering whether you updated Org or Emacs or both
- Guessing it was just Org
- Running M-x org-version RET
- Looking for the email annoncement of 9.2
- Finding a one-liner saying "Enjoy!" (#ðßðđłßðđ!!)
- Remembering there is an orgmode.org website
- Feeling a bit annoyed by the 7 years old cheesy design
- Finding the "See the release note" after three minutes
- Adding a TODO task "Read Org's release notes..."
- Reading them and not remembering what you're looking for
- Thinking your stupid
- Realizing you're looking for why <sTAB is gone
- Wondering how to call <sTAB: completion? expansion? extension?
- Finding entries in ORG-NEWS a bit boring to read (youth is gone)
- Not being entirely sure to understand what it says as english
  is not your your mother tongue (happens to the best of us!)
- Guessing through the lines that you need (require 'org-tempo)
- Wondering whether you'll learn salsa by adding this (tempo??)
- Thinking your stupid
- Testing and celebrating <sTAB is back
- WONDERING WHY YOU HAD TO DO ALL THIS
- Remembering the years when such victories boosted your mood
- Feeling you're now too old for this
- Or perhaps you're just stupid
- Anyway, it works now!
- Adding ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; on top of (require 'org-tempo)
  to make sure you never delete it by accident.

...

Was it a boring list to read?  Even more boring to live.

In fact, I'm inclined to ask the real question: if org-tempo is on by
default, who will have good reasons to turn it off and why?

Good night all!

-- 
 Bastien