Re: About exporting

[Martin Steffen]

Hi, here's my angle (which works for myself) how I use org-exporting in
connection with doing documents (I use in the meantime also org to
export as input for jekyll to produce HTML, but that's a different use,
the heavy lifting there is done in jekyll).


I am a LaTeX user since quite some time (also a bit TeX and texinfo)
ever since students. For LaTeX, I consider myself close to carrying a
black belt, maybe brown :-), for TeX and texi it's more dabbling (actually
for texinfo, I in the meantime use org and export to texinfo)

My (academic) environment and my field encourages use of LaTeX, that or
at least tolerates it; there are colleagues not to mention the
administration, who never would consider touching something
"unprofessional" like LaTeX, not mention org....


Evern since I picked up org, I use org also to produce LaTeX. Often
diferent versions of Latex-src from the same org file. Sometimes LaTeX +
HTML side by side, sometimes ODT.

For ODT, it's often that someone forces me to ``it must be doc-file''
(or docx), because for some document and "doc-file" is synonymous.


The more the use-case for the document is proper typesetting /and
nothing else/, so the focus is on one single typeset output, the more I
simply work in LaTeX only. I have the feelinga it's faster, and the
fancy stuff (macros, enviorinments, styles, classes), I rely on LaTeX's
facilities anyway, even if I use org as pre-stage.

If I have a multi-purpose use-case, I often use org, or actually, it's a
mixure. Still the fancy stuff (typesetting specification, macros,
environments....) is done in latex. By multi-purpose, I for instance
mean I do for some courses. The slides are in LaTeX, which means, beamer
mode,and org supports that reasonably. A different version of the
"slides" contains more text (sentences, expanations, etc). So I export a
different version (different export tags).

Still some portions of the overall document are native LaTeX. those are
typically included (not ``inlined''), often formulas and math
definitions, one reason being that editing LaTeX is faster in that case
than editing that in org.

And a third version could be HTML for webpages etc.  Of course one can
have conditional text in LaTeX as well, but org is quite good in that as
well. One can export latex to html, but generating it from org is
better.


There is one case where I do _NOT_ use org for such documents (though I
use org basically most things I do), and that is

     collaborative editing,

working together on a document (maybe shared by git), at least with a
document of some amount of complexity and typesetting requirement.

Even if I know that some colleagues use org (very few only, though), I
have the distinct feeling it gives too much headaches. Org would work
fine, being text, so revisioning is easy.

However, it's TOO flexible. I do quite complex documents with org
(exporting to latex), but I am not sure how sure to make it reliably
work when working together with one or more persons, and how much
``debugging'' and headache it would take.  I for instance like to test
out new packages, have the newest org. For LaTeX, that seems mostly
unproblematic, for org, not sure.

And then comes the personal habits: One great thing is that org is
flexible and one can make use of useful ``workflows'' or conventions
that profitable for oneself, and one gets used to it, one can adapt, and
then I have extra packages and adaptations. I can handle that (because I
adapt that myself), but it may conflict with other people's fiddlings.

Of course, in latex you can fiddle endlessly as well; even if one has
agreed on common macros and class files and conventios, one can easily
mess it up (typically for novices, who start changing layout or
typesetting, injecting manual spacing etc). But in LaTeX it seems more
under control, the purpose is to provide uniform typesetting of text
documents, it allows you to imposes "discipline" on the format (if you
are willing to stick to the agreed style files etc) Org, on the other
hand, is not about "uniform, classy output", it's not about
"discipline", it offers freedom and encourages playing around with, and
people who like to work with org _like_ to play around with it and to
stuff with it that others did not though of.

That's why I have not dared to write challenging (latex) documents with
org collaboratively (complex documents alone, yes, simple documents
jointly, but not all....)
[
Martin














>>>>> "Ypo" == Ypo  <ypuntot@gmail.com> writes:

    Ypo> Hi

    Ypo> After some years of using orgmode, and exporting using its
    Ypo> defaults, I would like to take a quality leap and find a way of
    Ypo> exporting for life. My options: LaTeX, ODT, HTML.

    Ypo> LaTeX: I can see some masters here that make professional
    Ypo> books, and I have some friends that publish scientific papers
    Ypo> using LaTeX. But, it looks like a like a rabbit hole to me,
    Ypo> since even the masters seem to have to modify the tex file
    Ypo> directly (is this correct?), not being sufficient orgmode to
    Ypo> culminate the work by itself. And to learn LaTeX seems a
    Ypo> lifelong activity (almost like "learning" orgmode). BTW, when I
    Ypo> export to LaTeX although it gets the job done, it sends a lot
    Ypo> of error messages.

    Ypo> ODT: I take this one as a lower level solution than LaTeX, but
    Ypo> it looks easier to tame, and it even allows to use templates,
    Ypo> for example to make reports in the workplace. Do you think it
    Ypo> is worth focusing on ODT exporting? Could it be a definitive
    Ypo> solution to publish papers and books directly from orgmode? ODT
    Ypo> exporting sends some error message to me, but at least I
    Ypo> understand it.

    Ypo> HTML: I have seen some themes designed to export in LaTeX
    Ypo> format using HTML. Here we would have the "definitive tool":
    Ypo> The power of LaTeX in the versatility that could give the use
    Ypo> of different themes for different purposes. But, do you think
    Ypo> it could get, some day, the quality of a direct LaTeX export?
    Ypo> No errors by my side when exporting to HTML.

    Ypo> How do you think I should spend some hundreds (or thousands) of
    Ypo> hours to achieve maestry exporting my documents?

    Ypo> Best regards.