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Re: [Fenfire-dev] Re: Could you merge
From: |
Tuomas Lukka |
Subject: |
Re: [Fenfire-dev] Re: Could you merge |
Date: |
Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:28:02 +0300 |
User-agent: |
Mutt/1.5.4i |
On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 10:14:03PM +0300, Janne Kujala wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 05:47:58PM +0300, Tuomas Lukka wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 03:06:29PM +0300, Janne Kujala wrote:
> > > Nyt oletuksena oletetaan monitorin noudattavan sRGB:tä
> > > (kokeile vob.demo.lava.gamma). Minulla Eizo F730:lla ilman sRGB:n
> > > "offset":ia gamma oli pielessä aina joko tummilla tai vaaleilla
> > > väreillä, mutta nyt "xgamma -gamma .87":lla tulee epälineaarisuus
> > > lähes tarkalleen sRGB:n mukaan.
> >
> > I think that for papers and other purposes, we need to discuss this on the
> > list first,
> > before merging.
> >
> > Forcing people to adjust xgamma to such a strange value is not to be taken
> > lightly.
> > Translation of jvk's mail (I recommend posting merge requests to the list
> > in the future,
> > along with a short description so discussion can be began directly):
> >
> > Now it is assumed that the monitor obeys sRGB (try
> > vob.demo.lava.gamma). For me, on an Eizo F730, without the sRGB
> > "offset" the gamma was always wrong either on the dark or
> > light colors, but now "xgamma -gamma .87" gives the nonlinearity
> > almost exactly according to sRGB.
> >
> > Now, the problem with this gamma is that all other software will look *too
> > dark*.
> > Most people will not adjust their gamma so. Another problem is that the
> > OpenGL
> > filtering which is linear will not work correctly either.
> >
>
> I feel that you may have misunderstood the issue ;)
I've not claimed at any point that I haven't ;) ;)
But that still implies that a better explanation is needed.. thank you for
giving it.
> We have discussed the gamma matter before, here's a short summary:
>
> - We used to assume linear rgb reproduction
> - PC's are typically configured for non-linear rgb with around
> 2.2 gamma, i.e., by default, the rgb values map to physical
> intensities approximately as x -> x**2.2
> - Thus, people were forced to do "xgamma -gamma 2.2" in order to
> "neutralize" the default non-linearity
> - We decided to assume the typical 2.2 gamma in libpaper
> (by applying the inverse of the nonlinearity to the
> linear-RGB paper colors) so that people would not have to
> adjust their gammas.
Also, that gamma corresponds to the human eye response curve better,
having more resolution where it counts.
> Now, compared to the above decision, the change in the present patch is
> minor -- from the assumption of plain 2.2 exponent to the very similar
> assumption of sRGB nonlinearity. Try gnuplotting
>
> plot [0:1] x**2.2,((x+.055)/1.055)**2.4
>
> to get an idea of the difference.
I don't understand **at all** how this follows from the above, where
you speak of "-gamma .87" ...
> What is important in sRGB is the different behavior near zero,
> which models the actual non-linearity implemented in monitors and/or
> graphics cards much better.
So it's an alternative gamma model?
> Thus, the change will
> 1) not force anybody to set their gamma anymore than anyone
> was forced to set it before,
> 2) yield more accurate color reproduction for RGB components
> near zero.
>
> I needed the .87 gamma correction just to obtain the standard
> 2.2 gamma. That is, in my configuration, the default was actually
> around 1.9 instead of the assumed 2.2. I'd be happy to change the
> assumption to 1.9, if it was shown that my case was not an exception
> but actually closer to the typical case than the standardized value.
Ahh..., Ok, *now* it becomes clear.
> What comes to the linear filtering in OpenGL, we have decided that
> the inaccuracies resulting from the display gamma will just have to
> be accepted (as does everybody else) rather than force people to
> configure for linear RGB, which would
> 1) make other programs look too light,
> 2) reduce the color resultion (the non-linearity is
> implemented to better match perceptual scaling).
>
> If proper filtering is necessary, a fragment program could be used
> to implement the inverse non-linearity.
Ok, an excellent explanation. Thank you.
Will merge presently.
Tuomas