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Re: [Fsfe-uk] Re: Resignation from AFFS committee

From: Kevin Donnelly
Subject: Re: [Fsfe-uk] Re: Resignation from AFFS committee
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:16:47 +0100
User-agent: KMail/1.7.1

On Monday 06 Jun 2005 14:27, Chris Croughton wrote:
> That doesn't answer my question as 'yes'.  I repeat, do you agree with
> the claim to which I was responding, vis.
>   "If something didn't happen at a meeting, and is therefore not
>   minuted, then it didn't happen at all."

Yes, I do.  Whether it fits in with your worldview or not, an organisation 
cannot realistically depend on vague recollections - minutes provide a 
collective memory.  Things can certainly "happen" between meetings, but they 
are irrelevant unless they are passed on - what alternative process other 
than minutes do you propose?

> If I make a phone call to another committee
> member, and don't minute it, that phone call still happened as did any
> results of it. 

Yes, of course, but the point is that for it to have any relevance for the 
organisation you represent, it has to be reported to colleagues.  Unless you 
have telepathic colleagues.

> > Are you seriously suggesting
> > that a committee just does what it likes, without telling anyone else
> > what is going on, providing a note of record, etc?
> No, where did I say that?  I asked the question:
>   "... nothing will do except a proper meeting with official minutes?"
> Quite how you twist that to "without telling anyone else what is going
> on, providing a note of record, etc?", I don't know, but then I'm not a
> politician, I'm a programmer, when I ask a question it means what it
> says not something different.

Minutes *are* a note of record.  I'm not clear as to how and when you're going 
to acquaint colleagues with your doings if you don't have something like this 
- remember that we're not just talking about current colleagues, but future 

> > And you have a very odd notion of government procedures if you think
> > that is what happens there, any other impressions to the contrary.
> Well, since I didn't say that I think that "that is what happens there"
> (i.e. ""without telling anyone else what is going on, providing a note
> of record, etc?") your strawman falls down.  Telling someone what is
> going on is not the same as "a proper meeting with official minutes".

You did, actually:
"I'm certain that there are many governments and government departments
where that [calling everyone together to discuss and approve every
little thing] doesn't happen (indeed, there are quite a few which don't bother 
having committees at all, dictatorship is so much more efficient)."

It doesn't really matter how "officially" you do it - the point is that some 
sort of minuting/recording is essential if the organisation is to be viable 
over a period of time.  Of course, if people think that being held to 
decisions made earlier is going to cramp their style, they may not agree that 
minutes are a good idea.


Pob hwyl / Best wishes

Kevin Donnelly

www.kyfieithu.co.uk - Meddalwedd Rhydd yn Gymraeg
www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD!

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