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Re: [Fsfe-uk] Mac OS X refund

From: Noah Slater
Subject: Re: [Fsfe-uk] Mac OS X refund
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:51:38 +0000
User-agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01)

On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 02:26:05PM +0100, Andrew Savory wrote:
>    I think it's in Freakonomics where the idea of "common wisdom" is
>    demolished. And I think it's on the Apple and Dell websites where the
>    performance/cost issue is refuted ;-)

Can you provide specific specs vs. prices instead of hand-waving?

>    Meanwhile I don't think the ability to tweak or upgrade will ensure the
>    dominance of the PC platform. The upgraders and tweakers are a tiny
>    minority. Most people simply don't care.

It's not the ability to tweek or upgrade that I was complaining about,
it's the ability to take the machine to any old computer shop and say
"replace my PSU please" and get the job done for 50 quid.

Instead, I have to take it to a "Genius Bar" in Sheffield and pay 600 quid.

>    Heh. So my luxury-designed superquiet laptop on which I can wordprocess,
>    develop software etc is more expensive than your email and web machine?
>    Well, gosh .... :-)
>    Seriously, this is just FUD. And we're supposed to be anti-FUD.

No, this isn't FUD. Where is the fear, uncertainty or doubt I am casting?

Clearly, you don't mind paying through the nose for style, and that's
totally fine, each to his own etc. I prefer to get more bang for my
buck, not curves.

>    If my Dyson breaks it has to go back to them to fix (if I want to keep the
>    warranty, especially). The problem is.... ?

This may be the case, but we're not talking about Vacuum cleaners.

Regular PCs have a HUGE market of independant and chain shops offering
repairs and upgrades. So, in this context, Apple clearly offers the

>      It might be awesome from a technical perspective, but when you
>      spend^H^H^H^H^Hwaste an entire weekend learning OpenFirmware just so
>      you can get your machine to boot I could that as a failure.
>    A failure in your technical skills? ;-P

So it's a failure of my technical skills that a compuer I bought is
braindead enough to dump me into OpenFirmware. Sure, makes sense.

>    Perhaps you should not have changed OS? Whilst I defend your right to
>    switch and do whatever you like with your machine, I also defend the
>    manufacturer's and the audience's right to go "har-har" when it breaks.

Well, it seems we come from very different worlds and it surprises me
you're even subscribe to this list with that kind of outlook. You may
find it acceptable for a hardware manufacture to put obstacles in your
place when you try to tinker with the stuff you have bought and to
laugh at you when you have problems...

I don't.

>    So pick an OS that has been tested.

Debian is very well tested, it still breaks occasional on exotic

> Or donate to a project so they can afford to test.

Oh, I help out where I can.

 *) FSF member #5472
 *) http://qa.debian.org/address@hidden
 *) http://www.gnu.org/people/people.html#n

> Or buy different hardware.

I will be doing next time, and that is the advice I am dispensing.
>    But certainly don't blame Apple
>    because your OS of choice (which they don't supply) doesn't work in your
>    case!

I am not "blaming" Apple. Methinks thou protesteth too much.

All I am saying is, if you want to run free software and you want to
own an Apple computer, caveat emptor.

>    (Incidentally X11.app on MacOS now uses Xorg. Come on in, the water's
>    lovely!)

Yeah, I used to use X11.app when I was running OS X.

I switched to Debian for two reasons:

 1) OS X doesn't have a package manager and fink/macports sucks.
 2) I don't hate freedom and wanted to run a free software OS.

>    Gosh, I hope your vacuum cleaner, TV, car and dishwasher allow you to swap
>    and replace the hardware.

You are confused or trying to mislead us.

This debate is framed within the context of what already exists for
the PC market, which is a healthy and vibrant marketplace of
repair/upgrade shops.

If you are happy to forgo this huge benifit to run Apple hardware, fine.

Noah Slater <http://bytesexual.org/>

"Creativity can be a social contribution, but only in so far as
society is free to use the results." - R. Stallman

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