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Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities
From: |
Joe Wells |
Subject: |
Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities |
Date: |
Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:51:13 +0100 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1 (gnu/linux) |
"Kai Antweiler" <address@hidden> writes:
>> >> The calculation of the decaying averages AT, HT, and G should probably
>> >> use factors other than 0.9. Determining the best factors to use will
>> >> require experimentation.
>> >
>> > We could also experiment with other control structures.
>> > Steph mentioned a PID controller (for something else) a while ago.
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
>>
>> Do we have someone available to program such things who would
>> understand them?
>
> Leo and I have studied math.
>
>> I worry about the maintainability of the extra
>> program complexity. Would the improvement in the calculated values
>> make a big enough difference to justify the extra program complexity?
>
> This probably depends on how you compute it.
> Taking average is a form of integration.
> And a differential quotient can be approximated by a difference quotient:
> (f(x+h) - f(x)) / h
Okay, it sounds like you understand it well enough to maintain it.
Good news.
Maybe bad news for you, because this means you (or Leo) get to program
it. :-) ☺
While we are waiting for you to program it, what do you think of just
using the simple method I proposed, namely NewAverage = (OldAverage *
0.9 + NewData * 0.1)?
>> > Right now the values might jump a bit depending on how high the "running"
>> > levels
>> > are for the arriving glob. (Especially when a few explorers get hungry.)
>> > We could flatten this a bit by using the globs speed as well as time.
>> > (And the average running level for workers, or globs)
>>
>> I don't understand the previous paragraph. Can you explain?
>
> A slow glob that is far away will have an unproportional big effect
> when it arrives.
> All other globs that arrived during the game combined lead to a number
> that is just 9
> times as heavy as the impact that this glob will have.
> It probably is an outlier in the statistic. (Probably it shouldn't be
> waited at all.)
Very good point.
Probably the time the globs take should be adjusted based on their
speed to get instead the time the “average” glob _would_ have taken.
Of course, this would require additional programming work to maintain
the average globule speed. And there is the complication of land
speed vs. water speed.
However, I don't think we should adjust for the distance of the trip,
because a globule arriving from a long distance may be the first of a
large number of globules arriving from a long distance. For example,
consider the first warriors that start returning from a strike on an
enemy base.
> On the other hand fast explorers, or globs nearby will have an
> unproportianal influence
> as well - again only at the time when they arrive.
I suspect this will not hurt in practice. And the effect could be
reduced by simply multiplying the old value by a larger factor than
0.9.
> After a few other
> globs it will be flattened.
> We can reduce this effect somewhat, if we (let's say) multiply the
> time by the speed of the globs and maybe divide by the average speed.
>
>> > Basically I would prefer an market economy style system, where every glob
>> > has to work for its money and also buildings compete with each other
>> > in their wages.
>> > The amount of social welfare would be up to the player. And globs
>> > with low money
>> > might get only small amount of food back in restaurants and of health
>> > in hospitals.
>> > The player would have to care about debts, inflation, subventions and
>> > taxes.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you are proposing. Do you want to write a concrete
>> proposal?
>
> No, I don't. It's more a long term idea, that I haven't thought much about.
> Imagine real life economy in glob2. This would add a nice gaming element.
> Money would also be an intuitive quantity for the player.
> When the player gives his globs more money (by social welfare) or your
> buildings
> more money (by subvention), then he earns from taxes and booty,
> inflation happens.
Okay.
In the meantime, what do you think of my proposals? I think they are
fairly simple, and could well be good enough. Combined with Leo's
idea of boosting priorities based on the length of time spent waiting
to hire a globule, I think some nice improvement in game play might
result.
--
Joe
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, (continued)
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Joe Wells, 2007/08/22
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Leo Wandersleb, 2007/08/22
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Joe Wells, 2007/08/22
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Kai Antweiler, 2007/08/22
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Joe Wells, 2007/08/22
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Kai Antweiler, 2007/08/22
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Joe Wells, 2007/08/22
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Kai Antweiler, 2007/08/23
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Joe Wells, 2007/08/23
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Kai Antweiler, 2007/08/23
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities,
Joe Wells <=
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Kai Antweiler, 2007/08/24
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Joe Wells, 2007/08/24
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Kai Antweiler, 2007/08/24
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Joe Wells, 2007/08/24
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Kai Antweiler, 2007/08/24
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Joe Wells, 2007/08/26
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Bradley Arsenault, 2007/08/26
- Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Stéphane Magnenat, 2007/08/26
Re: [glob2-devel] concept for building priorities, Kai Antweiler, 2007/08/22