Re: [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] funding free software R&D

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Lord <address@hidden> writes:

    Tom> Maybe that's a misleading way to look at it.

    Tom> At today's prices, RHAT's in particular, I think people _are_
    Tom> paying for something that they use, even if they never call
    Tom> the support number.

But as far as I know much of what you mention (security patches,
enterprise infrastructure) is available on the ftp site for no charge.
So if they're "paying for" those things, they fit into my category.
They're willing to pay for them (for whatever reason) despite
availability at no charge.

If buying Red Hat gives you an Oracle license, that's another matter.

    >> The real problem is that people are unwilling to pay for
    >> something they don't want.  What people want is a better CVS;
    >> what people want is something that will reduce the annoyances
    >> they have to deal with without changing what they do.

    Tom> It would be weird, then, that, at least arguably, nobody is
    Tom> providing a better CVS or even working on one.  A "different
    Tom> CVS", perhaps.

I think subversion has preempted the "better CVS".

    Tom> I think it's because there's not much demand for software
    Tom> development and, consequently, tools that help make software
    Tom> development _better_ are anthema.

There's plenty of demand for software development.  On the one side,
there are the big proprietary firms and the inhouse IT organizations.
But for them a few hundred seats of Rational license is a non-issue.

On the other side, there's the hackers.  But as the strong anti-
standards contingent present on this list (_this_ list, even!) shows,
it's idiosyncratic, "what works for me is good enough."  Unpaid
hackers, except those who choose to hack on productivity tools,
generally do not have a strong incentive to make themselves better or
lower-cost programmers.  Many seem to resist that, perhaps associating
it with the straitjacket of their day job.

    Tom> And please note that "commercial demand" and "what hackers in
    Tom> the free software community talk about wanting" are very
    Tom> different things.

Of course.  But ...

    Tom> Evidence, as good as any, of the _failings_ of RHAT execs to
    Tom> align their business model with the available resources.

Please unpack.  I don't get it.

    >     Barak> instead of aiming toward elite programming.

    > As I understand it, arch is not aimed at "elite programming."  It's
    > aiming at a real (large and growing) hole in support for some of the
    > things that should be every-day activities of small-scale developers,
    > not limited to large companies that can afford non-developer technical
    > staff to support the developers.

    Tom> I'd like to think it's both.

Oh, of course, of course!  I don't mean to detract from your plan for
a scalable environment that can support an individual programmer from
initial moonlight hacking to leading commercial provider.

    Tom> The rule of thumb for the tech industry is "something
    Tom> surprising will happen".  I think that rule of thumb is a bit
    Tom> like Moore's Law: it wears out -- in our lifetimes -- soon --

What makes you so certain either is going to wear out?  You sound like
the late 19th century physicists who declared that everything that was
left was "engineering" (although Michaelson-Morley etc had already
been done).  Yes, I know about the "absolute" physical limits, but
they assume things like von Neumann architecture, no?

I think there are plenty of surprises left in our lifetimes.

    Tom> To keep things going, I think, programmers need to return to
    Tom> the meta-issues of building technology that makes them much,
    Tom> much more productive.  And who's got time for that?

Free software hackers.  Who else?

    Tom> "Looking back and forth between the arch patch queue and my
    Tom> new lisp,"

Yeah, so?  Get yourself some gatekeepers (heck, James already is for
the docs, right?), invest some time in training them up, and use the
freed time as you please.

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.