Re: GNU licenses

[Alexander Terekhov]

More free software perspectives in light of Oracle announcement...

July 25, 2001:

http://lwn.net/2001/features/oreilly2001/BruceMomjianInterview.php3

------
How would you characterize Great Bridge's relationship with Red Hat 
today?

I have a funny story for you.

I was down at Red Hat, with Michael Tiemann, their CTO, to give a 
speech to the Red Hat engineers. I went down there to speak about an 
article on my web site. The article is about the ``prisoner's 
dilemma'' and what that implies for how companies control various 
resources. The speech was about the challenges of open source and 
the challenges of companies involved with open source.

I give the speech then fly back to Norfork to spend a couple of days 
at Great Bridge. I drive over to Great Bridge. I'm walking in the 
door about 5:30 in the afternoon. The President of Great Bridge is 
walking out. He says that about a half hour ago Red Hat announced 
that they are going to be doing commercial support for PostgreSQL. It 
was kind of eerie to leave Red Hat then realize that they made this 
announcement as I'm flying away. It was a kind of surreal position to 
be in.

I've obviously been to Raleigh-Durham to speak to all the Red Hat 
engineers. I went up to Toronto where Red Hat's PostgreSQL engineering 
group is going to be located. I met with Patrick McDonald there and 
spent a full day going over the development community, how it operates, 
went over the 'to do' list and how they can get involved. We're 
obviously very excited to have them adding resources to PostgreSQL.

Great Bridge's feeling about this? It is not a surprise to us that they 
got involved. We understand the need to move into the larger enterprises. 
You can't get the kind of additional revenue possibilities large 
enterprises offer in the desktop environment. We would have liked a 
larger head start in this market but we understand why Red Hat had to do 
it. Their coming was anticipated.

Our relationship with Red Hat seems to be pretty good. We get along with 
them well, they are very nice people. Obviously Frank Batten [Great 
Bridge's chairman and an early investor in Red Hat] has a relationship 
with Red Hat. In a sense we also have that prior relationship going into 
the project

Our feeling is that the open source database pie is just so big that 
there is certainly room for both companies. In fact, Red Hat's choice of 
PostgreSQL is a validation of Great Bridge's involvement. We've got 
people saying "Oh wow, there's Great Bridge and now there's Red Hat. 
Obviously the wagons are circling around PostgreSQL." It just shows that 
this is a very sane space to be in: that a lot of companies see potential. 
We think that there is a lot of room for everybody.

What do you see as the primary differentiators between Red Hat's offerings 
and what Great Bridge offers their customers.

There are probably two primary differences.

One is that Great Bridge focuses on PostgreSQL database solutions. Great 
Bridge has a huge amount of database expertise by hiring three of us [from 
the PostgreSQL core team] and having already established themselves in this 
database marketplace.
------

September 6, 2001:

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-272715.html

------
Great Bridge, a Norfolk, Va., subsidiary of Landmark Communications, will 
close, and 38 of its 41 employees will be laid off, said Frank Batten, 
chairman of parent company Landmark and Great Bridge's founder.

In retrospect, it would have been a good idea to sell the company to Red 
Hat, Batten said. Red Hat this spring offered a "modest price, but it 
would have been better to have sold the company for something rather than 
nothing," Batten said.

Great Bridge is working with Red Hat and other companies to try to find 
jobs for its staff, he added.

Great Bridge's product was based on the PostgreSQL database, and the 
company employed several programmers on the core team for the software 
project.

The company lowered its pricing scheme after Red Hat joined the fray, and 
it found more customers were interested in paying for hourly consulting 
rather than annual support deals.

"We could not get customers to pay us big dollars for support contracts," 
Batten said. 
------

Alexander Terekhov wrote:
> 
> And here comes the GPL girl:
> 
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061026013857159
> (Oracle's Offering and Red Hat's Response)
> 
> ------
> The CEOs of Dell and HP, among others, say this is a great leap forward,
> in video clips at the end. Things are beginning to smell funny, folks.
> There does appear to be some kind of enterprise makeover attempt, to
> remake Linux in their image. Why would anyone imagine that grabbing Red
> Hat's work product and cutting Red Hat off from its own customers would
> be progress? And if Red Hat is put out of business, what will Oracle
> sell then?
> 
> What the corporate dudes never do grasp is that you can't coopt FOSS
> past a point, because FOSS programmers won't work for nothing to buy
> them yachts.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Making Linux more successful in the enterprise is the right goal. But
> not if you kill off what makes Linux desirable, namely ethics. It's the
> value add of FOSS, and if the corporate guys don't figure that out soon,
> they really will kill the Golden Goose. Let me explain in one sentence
> why:
> 
>     Cut throat competition destroys software.
> 
> ------
> 
> LOL.
> 
> http://news.com.com/5208-7344-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=22307&messageID=196964&start=-1
> 
> ------
> ...the fact that Oracle does it shows that RHAT and other Linux
> distributors have been living in a dream. Their business model is
> "develop software, give it away and live off support". But there's
> nothing preventing another company from establishing a slightly more
> interesting business model: "NOT develop software, take what's
> already out there, give it away, live off cheaper support". Nothing
> bad with that, but then the companies investing in developing Linux
> will have a cost center with nothing to show for it. Why would any
> serious company spend money on something that gives zero $ in return?
> 
> Net result: corporate Linux development is stalled, and only
> development comes from individuals and nonprofit organizations. Not
> the death of Linux, but certainly a bad sign.
> 
> And the crazy thing is that this was evident from day zero. But some
> tried to look the other way, especially investors trying to look into
> some innovative business models.
> 
> Now it's time for a reality check. And RHAT stock is just beginning
> to show the consequence of that reality.
> ------
> 
> alexander.terekhov@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > http://news.com.com/5208-7344-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=22307&messageID=196945&start=-1
> >
> > -------
> > interesting business plan
> >
> > Reader post by: hedred
> > Posted on: October 25, 2006, 4:17 PM PDT
> > Story: Oracle to offer Red Hat Linux support
> >
> > Copy RedHat's product and steal their customers.
> >
> > So, what happens when RedHat goes out of business?
> >
> > Will Oracle be able to update the OS on their own?
> >
> > Is Microsoft behind this just like they have been behind SCO?
> > -------
> >
> > LOL.
> >
> > alexander.terekhov@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > http://www.charvolant.org/~doug/gpl/gpl.pdf
> > >
> > > -------
> > > The open-source movement has provided the impetus for another form of
> > > patronage. Companies such as RedHat or Linuxcare need free software to
> > > succeed to be successful themselves. As a result, these companies hire
> > > the producers of free software to ensure the supply, provide good
> > > public relations and provide in-house expertise for the support
> > > operations that make up the companies income.
> > > This is in addition to the general desire on the company's part to do
> > > the right thing; open-source is still a social movement.
> > >
> > > Eric Raymond argues that this form of patronage works, in part, because
> > > the companies dispensing the patronage are leaders in the field, and
> > > thus benefit in proportion.[20] If this is true, then it also
> > > represents the break-point for this form of patronage. As the market
> > > becomes more competitive, a significant free-rider problem appears:
> > > companies that do not have the overhead of patronage and can offer the
> > > same services at reduced cost.[13]
> > > -------
> > >
> > > http://news.com.com/Oracle+to+offer+Red+Hat+Linux+support/2100-7344_3-6129544.html
> > >
> > > -------
> > > "As of this moment, Oracle is announcing full support for Red Hat
> > > Linux," Ellison told thousands of attendees at the Oracle OpenWorld
> > > conference here. "If you are a Red Hat support customer, you can very
> > > easily switch from Red Hat support to Oracle support."
> > >
> > > Becoming an operating-system company is one of a series of bold
> > > attempts at growth by the Redwood Shores, Calif.-based software
> > > company, which in recent years also has acquired small and large
> > > rivals. Many major computing companies have embraced Linux, but until
> > > now, all have chosen partnerships with Linux companies rather than
> > > direct competition.
> > >
> > > Ellison argued that customers of the Unbreakable Linux 2.0 service will
> > > enjoy lower costs, better bug fixes and legal protections compared with
> > > Red Hat. Software updates cost $99 a server, while technical support
> > > costs $399 for a two-processor server and $999 a year for a larger
> > > system, Ellison said. And unlike Red Hat, Oracle will let anyone
> > > download the software for free.
> > >
> > > "We will backport your bug-fixes" to earlier Linux versions, he said.
> > > "We will indemnify you from intellectual property problems. And our
> > > support costs way less than half of what Red Hat charges," Ellison
> > > said.
> > >
> > > Oracle, like the CentOS project, wants to clone Red Hat's Linux based
> > > on the source code produced by the company, not create a new Linux
> > > variant. And Ellison promised that software certified for Red Hat's
> > > Linux will still work.
> > >
> > > "If your application runs on Red Hat today, that application will run
> > > unchanged when you're getting Oracle support," Ellison said. "It's very
> > > important not to fragment the Linux market. Every time Red Hat comes
> > > out with a new version, we're going to sync our version with that
> > > version. All we add is bug fixes."
> > >
> > > Red Hat didn't immediately comment. Red Hat shares fell sharply in
> > > after-hours trading, down more than 10 percent to $17.45 a share.
> > >
> > > Oracle will sell support to any Red Hat Linux customer, not just
> > > customers of Oracle products, Ellison said.
> > > -------
> > >
> > > Alexander Terekhov wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alexander Terekhov wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > John Hasler wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well, you can also get whitebox Linux or something like that...
> > > > >
> > > > > [Red Hat's free-riders]
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > White Box Linux and Centos.
> > > > >
> > > > > WBL is not well supported. Centos has more friends (Sun Microsystems
> > > > > and OpenSolaris Project). At some point Red Hat will have to fire core
> > > > > programmers and only packagers will stay (free-riders do not have the
> > > > > overhead of patronage and can offer the same patching services).
> > > >
> > > > Now, this is fun:
> > > >
> > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061025/tc_nm/oracle_dc_1
> > > > (Oracle CEO targets Red Hat with half-price offer)
> > > >
> > > > -------
> > > > 31 minutes ago
> > > >
> > > > SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Oracle Corp. (Nasdaq:ORCL - news) is taking
> > > > aim at Red Hat Inc. (Nasdaq:RHAT - news), the top distributor of Linux
> > > > operating system software, with an offer to provide half-price technical
> > > > support to Red Hat Linux users, Chairman and Chief Executive Larry
> > > > Ellison said on Wednesday.
> > > >
> > > > Speaking at the company's annual user conference in San Francisco, the
> > > > technology industry's most outspoken executive said Oracle was seeking
> > > > to solve key problems that have held back the development of Linux among
> > > > big corporate customers.
> > > >
> > > > "As of this moment, Oracle is announcing full support for Red Hat 
> > > > Linux,"
> > > > Ellison told thousands of attendees at the company's annual OracleWorld
> > > > conference. "The goal is to enhance and speed the adoption of Linux."
> > > >
> > > > "Our support costs less than half what Red Hat charges," Ellison added.
> > > >
> > > > Linux is the most popular varient of open source software, which allows
> > > > developers to share code in order to focus on creating new features
> > > > themselves. Software like Linux allows customers to use programs for
> > > > free, paying only for custom features, maintenance and technical
> > > > support.
> > > >
> > > > (Additional reporting by Eric Auchard)
> > > > -------
 
regards,
alexander.