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Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Viro: "you are preaching to non-believers"

From: Alexander Terekhov
Subject: Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Viro: "you are preaching to non-believers"
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 20:33:15 +0200

Al Viro wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 01:57:59PM -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote:
> > On Jun 16, 2007, Bernd Schmidt <> wrote:
> >
> > > Alexandre Oliva wrote:
> > >> On Jun 15, 2007, Alan Cox <> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> What this means for the FSF goals if Tivo get up one morning and switch
> > >>> their system firmware to ROM however is interesting 8)
> > >>
> > >> I'm not the FSF, and I don't speak for it, but it seems to me that
> > >> this would be "mission accomplished".
> >
> > > This is insane.  You start with a lofty ideal involving "freedom", and
> > > when you end up with a meaningless technicality (and in technical terms
> > > a change for the worse) you consider it a victory?
> >
> > It accomplishes the mission in that everyone is on the same grounds.
> > Same freedom for everyone.  If the vendor tries to keep a privilege
> > over the software to itself, denying it to its customers, it's failing
> > to comply with the spirit of the license.  It's really this simple.
> > Is this so hard to understand?
> >
> > The goal is not to push vendors away from GPLed software.  If they
> > can't permit modification of the software, that's fine, they can still
> > accomplish this.
> >
> > What they can't do is deny it to customers while they retain it to
> > themselves.  This is unfair, this is wrong, and this disrespects
> > users' freedoms.  Therefore, the GPL should not permit it.
> How the hell does that improve the situation for users?  Alexandre,
> please realize that you are preaching to non-believers.  I realize
> that you have accepted the FSF credo, but if you want that conversation
> to go anywhere you have to separate the things you believe in from
> the things you can rationally explain.  Apologetics of your variety is
> not going to cut it.  _Can_ you separate the things relying on your
> beliefs from the things that can stand on their own?  If you can't
> do that, please stop wasting everyone's time and bandwidth.  It's
> a secular maillist; what any of us might happen to believe in is personal
> and frankly, none of your damn business.
> -


"Live cheaply," he said, offering some free advice. "Don't buy a house,
a car or have children. The problem is they're expensive and you have
to spend all your time making money to pay for them."

        -- Free Software Foundation's Richard Stallman: 'Live Cheaply'

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