Re: List posting rules

[Ruben Safir]

On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 12:39:34PM +0100, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> Hi Dora,
> 
> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:32:20PM -0400, Dora Scilipoti wrote:
> > On 10/31/2019 09:01 AM, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > > Please follow the rules of this list. Repetition should not happen.
> > > You have made your case.
> > 
> > It's no repetition. Ruben is responding specifically to a statement.
> 
> Ruben is a prolific poster who has already made his case that all this
> is just falsehoods and defamation. We are just going to have to agree
> to disagree on that. Simply repeating your opinion over and over
> again, while personally attacking the people you don't agree with,
> does not make for a very pleasant discussion.
> 


The conversation was unplesant the MINUTE RMS was made homeless because
of lies coming from fanatics.  That is not an opinion, that is a fact
based on the record.


> This list has slightly different posting rules than most other GNU
> lists. Which are often completely open to anyone, or private with
> restricted membership. We believed neither is ideal for a discussion
> on GNU governance issues. So we are experimenting with a lightly
> moderated list to have that discussion.
> 
> After various GNU maintainers and developers expressed a desire to
> discuss GNU governance issues:
> https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/
> We discussed with various people and the FSF what a good space would
> be for that. Since this mailinglist already is about "serious
> discussion of freed software, the GNU Project, the GNU Manifesto, and
> their implications" it seemed a good place to do that, especially
> since it already had posting rules that seemed compatible "Flaming is
> out of place. Tit-for-tat is not welcome. Repetition should not
> occur. Good READING and writing are expected. Before posting, wait a
> while, cool off, and think.".
> 
> Carlos and I discussed with the FSF and Karl, who normally moderates
> this mailinglist, whether we could use the list for this discussion
> and moderate it.
> 
> I see we somehow failed to post the announcement about that to this
> list itself, it somehow only got out to various other lists where
> people had expressed an interest in an open GNU governance. That was
> obviously a mistake, apologies.
> 
> https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2019-10/msg00147.html
> 
> That message also explains the rules for GNU governance related theads
> that you had a question about better than how I summarized it earlies.
> 
> These are the current posting guidelines, now also on the
> gnu-misc-discuss info page:
> 
>   Flaming is out of place. Tit-for-tat is not welcome. Repetition
>   should not occur.
> 
>   Good READING and writing are expected. Before posting, wait a while,
>   cool off, and think.
> 
>   So take your time to reply and think whether you actually have a new
>   point to make, or if you are just restating your opinion again. If
>   possible bundle your replies to several messages. Restricting yourself
>   to just one message a day to the list is not a bad thing.
> 
>   Don't just reply to every message repeating your opinion or have a tit-
>   for-tat discussion with just one member of the list. Also consider
>   addressing the list directly and remove individuals from the CC to
>   prevent a rapid fire back-and-forth between two people simply
>   disagreeing without the messages even having made it to the list yet.
> 
>   Make sure you have read the kind communication guide:
>   https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html
> 
>   Some important points from that: Assume other participants are posting
>   in good faith, even if you disagree with what they say. Please do not
>   criticize people for wrongs that you only speculate they may have done;
>   stick to what they actually say and actually do. Please respond to what
>   people actually said, not to exaggerations of their views. Your
>   criticism will not be constructive if it is aimed at a target other
>   than their real views. If in a discussion someone brings up a tangent
>   to the topic at hand, please keep the discussion on track by focusing
>   on the current topic rather than the tangent. If you think the tangent
>   is an important and pertinent issue, please bring it up as a separate
>   discussion, with a Subject field to fit, and consider waiting for the
>   end of the current discussion.
> 
>   And for GNU Project governance discussion threads, they should stay
>   on topic and be strictly about governance and not about specific
>   people and their respective abilities.
> 
> In general we don't have to enforce this very strictly. There have
> only been a few people who posted similar messages multiple times a
> day that we have rejected and asked to tone it down. There has been
> one thread which we believed spiraled out of control pretty quickly
> and that we have killed. In that case I posted a message to the list
> explaining why (and Carlos then repeated that in the message you
> replied to). In general anybody who just sents one or two messages a
> day gets their mails approved pretty quickly.
> 
> The moderation is mainly to make sure that the discussion doesn't
> become heated by people excessively posting and drowning out all other
> participants. If you feel the need to post to this list multiple times
> a day, or to a thread that already seen multiple replies, then simply
> think if you (or someone else) already made your point and if it can
> wait till tomorrow.
> 
> All posts to this list are seen by all moderators and when we do
> reject posts from a specific individual or on a specific thread, then
> we do sent that to the other moderators. So we can correct each other
> if we happen to make a mistake.
> 
> We have now also asked Brandon and Mike to help us with that, because
> we know they have different opinions on how GNU governance works. And
> it would keep us all honest.
> 
> I hope these rules will help keep the discussion pleasant and on-topic
> without flames, tit-for-tats and excessive repeats of points already
> made. And I hope you trust us enough to participate.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark

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