Re: A GNU “social contract”?

[Samuel Thibault]

Jean Louis, le jeu. 02 janv. 2020 22:12:45 +0100, a ecrit:
> but if blind user wish to draw on GIMP graphical program, forget about
> it.

Sure. So what? The UN only requires reasonable accomodation, not doing
the impossible. And making accessible software is not that complex. Just
like making internationalizable software is not either.

> Blind user is impaired user and cannot possibly have capacity as
> non-blind user can.

And still there is very little they would not be able to do if some
little effort was made.

> Just speak transparently, I don't even have a feeling that "all"
> relates to blind users only,

Of course, that was just an example.

> so please speak transparently, and tell which other groups you think
> should be included,

Colorblind, deaf, old, girls, non-english speakers, ...

> like what is actually the problem there?

To put it perhaps simply: simply caring about trying to include all
people, not just the people we happen to be used to.

> As so far I know GNU is already for everybody, and many accessibility
> features are alread there.

And way many more are missing. For instance there is *no* really good
free speech synthesis, and let alone speech recognition. That makes a
lot of people prefer to install non-free software on their GNU-based
system, because they need higher quality speech to be able to work.

> So I cannot believe that blind users are some "problem" that has to
> be resolved by imposing certain features to be programmed by GNU
> programmers.

A screen reader used by a blind person can't work if applications don't
somehow provide the text they show on the screen. Gtk does a fair good
part of the work, but as soon as an application invents its own widget,
it has to provide that kind of information, to be accessible to blind
people.

> That would not bring more contributors, that policy would be damaging,
> not supporting.

And yet we have succeeded in including internationalization, even if
adding that policy would have been considered damaging, not supporting.

> Can we hear from blind users?

The GNU project does have an accessibility@ mailing with quite a few
subscribers. One thread probably worth reading is

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/accessibility/2010-07/msg00048.html

> Did any of those blind users file a bug for any specific GNU software?

To many, yes. Just mentioning gnome for instance.

> If you are their representative, could you provide us some credible
> references of your representation?

> > Been doing that for twenty years already.
> Pleas give me reference to those bugs filed, if you have been doing it
> 20 years, there shall be many bugs filed for blind users.

> Waiting for the list of your bugs filed in last 20 years and comments
> from actual blind users.

This sounds so much like a joke to my ears...

I will of course not spend time on collecting that, just putting a few
urls out of my mind, where you will find the homework you could have
done yourself.

http://brl.thefreecat.org/
http://youpibouh.thefreecat.org/bugzilla.html
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=a11y
https://blends.debian.org/accessibility/

> > As mentioned previously, it's even the UN itself which does impose
> > it.
> 
> UN impose also the freedom of travel anywhere you wish, meaning that
> no passport is required, but that is not a reality.

That doesn't mean that countries should not try to aim for it like
Europe did at least internally.

> attempt from you few guys to take over GNU project under some kind of
> self-imposed government and with a lot of hidden agenda.

Repeating something diffamatory ad nauseam does not make it magically
true.

Samuel