Re: The anti-GNU defamatory group of Ludovic Courtès - Re: assessment of the GNU Assembly project

[Jean Louis]

* Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki@gmail.com> [2021-04-28 20:35]:
> Jean Louis, please consider whether certain expressions, for instance "like
> children", may sound like personal attacks.

I did not want to tell anything bad about children as they usually
behave somehow to the level of their age. In fact I wanted to use the
word "immature" as in the meaning 1. (2) immature -- (characteristic
of a lack of maturity; "immature behavior"), so I hereby apologize,
and this word may apply to me as well, especially in this paragraph.

Actions done by adults I consider to demand objectiveness. When
confronted to address the issue and person does not address the issue,
then I have no other choice but to say that behavior is immature.

I did ask Ludovic to explain, he did not explain, he has no issue to
tell. So the defamatory statements are there with intentional neglect
of truth.

My comments and talk to Ludo can be seen here:
http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guix/2019-10-07.log as under nick jmarciano
and I asked Ludo, if he can tell me facts over the defamatory
statement how "Stallman's behavior over the years has undermined a
core value of the GNU project" (is what Ludo's group is defaming) and
Ludo said, no, Guix chat is not place for the debate. But Guix website
is place for debate, but Guix chate is not place for debate. Of course
I am surprised as in Guix management there is definitely no
transparency neither call for any kind of dialog, like what is taking
place on this mailing list. That does not work there.

I asked them to turn on comments on that page, so that if it is
"collective statement" how the defamatory AntiGNU group wish to say,
that it really becomes collectively commented.

I have asked many times, Ludo refused to tell me. So I asked again, he
refused to tell me.

Then he said he does not like abort joke. But abort joke, did it
really undermine any core value of GNU project?

Sorry, I cannot see that.

> Andreas, please consider whether expressions like "hate email",
> which seem to attribute intent, may be needlessly harsh and
> inflammatory and therefore fall short of the standards proposed by
> the GNU Kind Communication Guidelines.

I really don't hate this people, I am arguing why they are
misrepresenting themselves, that is all.

You want your own space, make it, but don't misrepresent
yourself. Don't you see how much harm you do? Of course that group
cannot see that.

And none of them is making free software speech, they make software,
great, but none of them promotes free software philosophy neither
links to GNU.org pages. 

The AntiGNU assembly opened up because they wanted to do the division
of GNU project, would RMS stay in FSF -- but RMS resigned.

There was almost no activity on gnu.tools website in 2020.

Those "guys" are not even guys, nobody attended the mailing list. It
is just this:
https://lists.gnu.tools/hyperkitty/list/assembly@lists.gnu.tools/2020/10/

Until Ludovic Courtès started it:
https://lists.gnu.tools/hyperkitty/list/assembly@lists.gnu.tools/thread/SMFKD7M34VUTUW45MSO4UOWL4C7V5FQT/

"Like many I’m astonished by the FSF’s decision to reinstate RMS (who
actually still had voting rights, I recently learned)."

Comment: is not like many, it is  group of people who have different
politics, who then bad mouth RMS and invite quite innocent people into
your divisiveness.  As majority is supporting RMS:
https://rms-support-letter.github.io/ I don't know what you are still
mocking there if you respect some kind of polls or democratic public
opinion. But you don't.

"I support the call in the open letter to RMS¹ “for the removal of the
entire Board of the Free Software Foundation.”  Until it has cleaned
house, this foundation can no longer pretend to represent the free
software movement." --

what a bunch of nonsense!

Ludovic Courtès never gave any, not even one, published free software
philosophy speech. He gave speeches on Guix and technicalities. And
now he is the one who says that!

This is illegal take over attempt of a non-profit corporation that
DOES its job very well. Audited financial statements available:
https://static.fsf.org/nosvn/financial-statements/FinancialStatements-FY2019.pdf

Is there any audited financial statement of Guix? Where is the
accountability?

More from Ludo:

"I also support the call to remove RMS “from all leadership positions,
including the GNU Project” -- sorry, when I read this, I just remember
those jokes with Minion guys, nobody will undertand me, just skip
it. It is ridiculous. I am not calling Ludo to take his shoes out
because I want to slip into his shoes.

Of course I find it disgraceful by definition.

Definition from Wordnet:

1. disgraceful, scandalous, shameful, shocking -- (giving offense to
moral sensibilities and injurious to reputation; "scandalous
behavior"; "the wicked rascally shameful conduct of the bankrupt"-
Thackeray; "the most shocking book of its time")

Yes, I find it shocking that one lacks all the feelings and comes
along to tell project leader to remove oneself.

If that is not hateful, what it is?

And that it is AntiGNU project, shows also this:
https://lists.gnu.tools/hyperkitty/list/assembly@lists.gnu.tools/thread/3PDVUTCKG33R3KY7XCV5TKQUMIW5NMWC/

statement of Mark Galassi where he says:

"My guess is that we are passed the point of no return for the former
GNU project".

It is clear that the group wants to fork, and I don't say nothing
against fork, but don't call it "GNU project" as it is not.

Form your own group, who is forbidding you?

It is free software, take GNU software and call your own group as you
wish.

Finally, if you have your own space, somewhere, who is forbidding you
to freely develop?

But you people still whine and complain, even if you did form your
group, you come to GNU mailing list to divide more people from GNU
project.

You still whine even on your mailing list about your problems with
RMS.

Which problem do you have then if you have your own mailing list?

More from Ricardo Wurmus's censorship:
https://lists.gnu.tools/hyperkitty/list/assembly@lists.gnu.tools/thread/Z7VFVNAQY4KKZADQTWEVILOSMLWN7M4E/

"For the benefit of those who ask genuine questions and expect to 
find assembly members on #gnuassembly I propose to temporarily 
mute the channel (or whatever the appropriate name for the 
corresponding IRC action is) until a time when we can guarantee 
that enough assembly members are present to take questions and 
correct misunderstandings that may be perpetuated (maliciously or 
inadvertendly) by non-members.  I also think that for those 
curious newcomers it would be good to have some ops around to 
ensure that inquiries can be handled without heckling from 
non-members."

That is free speech?

Buhahahha.

That is the same guy who told me on Guix mailing list that they will
never allow comments.

More from Mark Galassi:
https://lists.gnu.tools/hyperkitty/list/assembly@lists.gnu.tools/thread/QDYJKAVUKI3LS42AWWBSJXE34ANECRNO/

"Now that we have a better underlying set of principles, and will possibly end 
up with a
more mature environment, I wonder if it might be a good idea to invite some 
projects to be
GNU projects.

In the past my projects became GNU projects because Stallman appreciated the 
work I did in
early GNU stuff and had written me in 1996 saying:"

I actually think Mark Galassi is not aware that the AntiGNU Assembly
is not GNU.

More from Ludovic Courtès having problems with censorship of his IRC
channel:

https://lists.gnu.tools/hyperkitty/list/assembly@lists.gnu.tools/thread/FATDEQC4ASWKBROKEU3V2XZLXST3VK6H/

"Over the last hours, a few people joined the #gnuassembly Freenode IRC
channel, mostly people hostile to the Assembly.

I “kicked” someone who insulted and threatened us, since it’s a clear
code of conduct violation; they came back later, this time using softer
words, but always rehashing their opposition to what we were doing,
questioning the code of conduct even after being told it’s not up for
discussion, and so forth.  Other newcomers contribute to that.

At this point, the few of us who’ve been around are outnumbered and
chatting with people evidently not interested in joining the Assembly.

This is unsustainable.  If we want an IRC channel that remains useful to
us, I think we may have to make it “invitation-only” so that only
Assembly participants can join, at least the coming days/weeks."

Yes, if you need private membership space, you got it righ!

But it is also clear that you do not listen to people, and that your
motives are in question. But you may be blind.

More from Ludovic Courtès where it becomes clear that money is one
good bite for him:
https://lists.gnu.tools/hyperkitty/list/assembly@lists.gnu.tools/thread/NK6IHISPQYU5CJPMARWA5FCZUQKYBTS7/

 Note that this does mean we will have to find a solution for those
GNU
 projects (like the GNU toolchain and GNU Guix) currently using the FSF
 Working together fund to start using a different financial setup. This
 will be somewhat painful. But associating with a different foundation
 (or start our own) can also be seen as a fresh start. 

That’s another topic (and a tricky one!) that toolchain and Guix folks
will have to sort out.  It requires thought and planning, if/when those
projects decide to look for a different fiscal sponsor.

-- sure, that is why you would like to divide FSF/GNU/GNU
   contributors, because that is the survival question. No money, no
   funny.

Remove FSF management, all of them, replace it with  "open source"
guys, let us dance around... buhahahaha.

Much talk in private, little in public, public disagreements. Waste of
time.

It summarizes to the fact that people found friends and split into
separate group, which is find and good in itself. Create software,
look for fiscal sponsors, associate with other people, BUT:

- don't call yourself GNU project, is it is not GNU project;

- don't misrepresent yourself, it is even illegal;

- respect copyrights and place licenses correctly;

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/
https://rms-support-letter.github.io/