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Re: assessment of the GNU Assembly project

From: Jean Louis
Subject: Re: assessment of the GNU Assembly project
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 23:54:59 +0300
User-agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06)

* Taylan Kammer <> [2021-04-30 22:19]:
> And if you do care about social justice, and just think that CoC are a
> bad way of supporting it, you should be able to make a case for that
> directly, without invoking conspiratorial theories.

The case was already demonstrated numerous times. It is too vague,
never written by attorneys, not aligned with the law, a document that
serves to accuse without hearing, injustice kind of justice. Code of
conduct has purpose to publicly shame.

Major problem is that it is vague, left open to interpretations and
too many times abused.

A decent and kind person will never collide with code of
conduct. Decent person will also not insist too much.

As otherwise, we always had "Terms of service". Website owner, mailing
list owner, IRC boss, whoever in charge was always authorized to
expell others for whatsoever reasons. I don't find it bad. This way
groups of same interest could communicate in pleasure with each other,
whoever they may be.

Code of conduct does not apply to volunteers who never have seen or
read it. It is in wrong place. When employee comes first day for work,
maybe company will tell him here is the code of conduct, please study
and behave. There is dependent relation and obligation, as both
parties are exchanging clearly defined values, like work/time for
salary and there is way how company raises values, and if that value
is damaged by bad conduct of employee, company cannot exchange with

In online software related or other communities there is almost
nothing that company is giving to volunteers. There is software, but
same software volunteer can get without volunteering or

Then software project managers may not be very tolerant people as it
is planet Earth, the true diversity is already there. However, some
project managers cannot simply handle their feelings when somebody
comes with disagreements or violent disagreements, and instead of
solving the problem at hand, which is almost always really the issue,
they use Code of Conduct to expell the person, so that they feel
better (instead of therapy). And problem at hand never gets solved.

So Code of Conduct is many times a hideous attempt to ignore the
problem or real issue.

Sample analysis:

User gnutec is coming for help, his Guix system is broken and he does
not know better. I did not verify, it could be his first time on chat,
verify for "gnutec" term, it should be clear that his system is
broken. The manner of chat or "welcoming" is far from anything we
talked here. Of course that "there is no warranty" for software, but
then why open up IRC channel and have such a policy to treat newcomers
like "bad behavior". All what I can see is that gnutec arrived in good
faith and had serious problem.

Then at one moment gnutec said:

<gnutec>So for the good of the guix system, do what I ask. Please!

then it becomes unwelcoming:

<dftxbs3e>gnutec, I think your behavior here is really bad and is
getting us nowhere!

<dftxbs3e>gnutec, nobody here owns you any help and if you are not
being nice about it I do not think I am willing to help you in any way
and that could be the same for everyone else.

<dftxbs3e>gnutec, I think that does not prevent you from being nice with people 
here. "So for the good of the guix system, do what I ask. Please" - Since when 
explicitly giving orders to volunteers is an acceptable behavior.
<dftxbs3e>Things happen at their own pace, there's so many things to
do, and each has its own varying priority.

It is the inability of dftxbs3e to grasp that:

- person is not writing well English

- person has serious problem with broken Guix system, and who has that
  kind of problem could be upset

Or how about Guix's code of conduct where "Examples of unacceptable behavior by 
participants include:
* The use of sexualized language" but then again we have 103
occurences of "fuck" and majority of them by one of IRC members who is
good friend among them, like nckx:

I don't mind the "fuck" there, but I can imagine there are teenagers
and people who behave different, rather decent, not using vulgar

Now we can see practically that project managers of Guix, WILL
tolerate their members when they use sexualized language, some of them
are ready to attack in private as well; but will not tolerate those
who disagree with their opinions, as if such person would say "fuck",
would be kicked out.

That is one good practical example with evidences how Code of Conduct
is practiced in hypocrisy.

Please note: I promote Guix all the time, 24 hours per day, and I have
no personal hate against anybody!


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