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Re: [gnugo-devel] GUI and Moyo

From: Gunnar Farnebäck
Subject: Re: [gnugo-devel] GUI and Moyo
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:55:33 +0200
User-agent: EMH/1.14.1 SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.2 (Yagi-Nishiguchi) APEL/10.3 Emacs/21.3 (sparc-sun-solaris2.9) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI)

Alexander wrote:
> I e-mailed it to Pete Shinners of, but haven't heard or seen 
> anything about it since. It's GPL, but the only place it's available right 
> now is on my laptop. :) I might release it on SourceForge, Savannah or my 
> homepage. Any ideas?

I suggest you start by putting up a copy on your homepage so we get
something to play with. :-)

> It's a completely separate program that talks to GNU Go via GTP. It generates 
> the 20 or so first moves, and then uses the GNU Go engine for the rest of the 
> moves.

I see, it takes over the whole fuseki. I was of the impression that it
produced moves mid-game, which would have been somewhat more complex.

> My code is only for generating moyo-expanding moves. When I try to run my 
> code 
> for the 20 first moves, and then GNU Go for the rest of the moves against 
> "pure" GNU Go, my version always wins. But, overriding the 20 first moves is 
> sub-optimal, since it's unable to handle stuff like contact play in the very 
> beginning. After the C-version is finished, I hope it will perform even 
> better than the current Python-version, and that it will also be able to 
> generate a good move or two for the mid- or endgame.
> [...]
> C-code is on it's way, but I'm not quite finished yet.

We wouldn't mind taking a look at your Python code in the mean time.
If it's small enough you can post it here, otherwise it's better to
put it up somewhere and just post a link.

> > 2) Run a long enough set of matches between original and the supposedly
> >    improved versions.  This works only if the improvement is significant
> >    enough.
> This is just about what I did.

For the fuseki testing against people and other programs is
particularly important. It's easy to overadapt and find something that
is effective against GNU Go but possibly not against anyone else. I
recently saw a player on KGS devastate GNU Go with a parallel 5-5
opening, for example. So some testing on KGS should be worthwhile.

> From what I can tell (I'm not exactly a pro Go-player), the moves makes 
> sense. 
> But, I probably need some help in asserting this. Are there any 
> resource-persons connected to the GNU Go project that I can contact over 
> time?

Feel free to post here, that's what the list is for. To start with one
or two examples of the opening moves against unmodified GNU Go would
be interesting to see.

> How complex is it to test a patched version of GNU Go on KGS? Do you have a 
> ready-made framework for this, or should I do some research on the web?

Not difficult at all, but you need to have a modern Java installed.
You can start by reading


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