Re: [Gnustep-marketing] GNUstep Foundation

[MJ Ray]

On 2004-10-02 00:07:32 +0100 Gregory John Casamento 
<address@hidden> wrote:

> I'm reluctant to allow the FSF to do this.  I admit that I trust 
> them, but I
> don't really want the community to not be in control.   If the FSF 
> manages the
> funds for GNUstep then the FSF, not us, are in control of how those 
> funds are
> used.  RMS can say no, if he wants, to anything he deems shouldn't be 
> done. 
> Nothing personal against RMS.

On the control, I broadly agree with you. If it's not possible for the 
GNUstep maintainers to direct funding in a similar way to they direct 
code, FSF is probably not my favourite donation collector. I think 
they may be willing to do so, if they trust that Adam is doing the 
best for the project and they may well trust him, as they've not 
removed him yet. Needs an answer from them to know, though.

On the specific "FSF can say no" problem, I disagree. FSF's leaders 
are pretty wise and experienced, so if they are willing to have hordes 
of GNUstep maintainers annoyed with them, they may have good reasons 
for refusing. I know I disagree with them on a few small issues (FDL 
and drafting processes), but they are mostly consistent and decent.

The other problem hinted at by some messages (not yours IIRC) is "FSF 
can spend our money on anything". As I wrote, if US law is similar, 
donations made for a particular purpose cannot be spent on other 
things. Is that similar? Without it, I would be uncomfortable with FSF 
collecting GNUstep funds.

Do you have some problems with FSF that you have not disclosed?

> Yes he does have final say for the project.   He is the Cheif 
> maintainer of
> GNUstep and no one is challenging that.
> But, in the same way that Miguel isn't the president of the GNOME 
> Foundation, 
> Adam (no offense Adam..) need not be the head of the GNUstep 
> Foundation. 
> Additionally, if someone wanted to start a foundation or a company 

I think this is a bit different to that case. With the maintainer's 
consent, you hope to set up something which looks like a branch of the 
project. If someone set up a company called "GNUstep" then I would 
normally expect some accusations of passing off, trying to take credit 
for the work of others.

Will the chief maintainer necessarily have any role in the foundation?

> > Changing the management structure of GNUstep is yet another 
> > different aim 
> > to marketing GNUstep. Again, I am not sure what people mean by the 
> > GNUstep 
> > Foundation.
> Hear this now... hear it once... and hear it good as I have mentioned 
> it three
> times and this will be the fourth:

I know what you mean. It is at odds with the posts of others. I think 
it may even disagree with your own methods for the foundation. By 
placing work contracts and commissions, it will be dictating what 
happens in the project.

> I already have.  The foundation shall be responsible for collection 
> of funds
> for the betterment of GNUstep and to help get the word out.
> If I were forced to come up with a business plan in a few minutes, 
> which seems
> to be what you're asking....

You had not got as far as any plans or notes? I overestimated how much 
you had considered it, for which I apologise. I felt that you were 
holding out on us, like a mystic.

> > Who would tell the GNUstep Foundation what is needed? How?
> The maintainers and the community.

Can Proprietary Bogey Corp label itself part of our community and take 
over the foundation?

> > Therefore, is the GNUstep Foundation intended to replace the FSF?
> No, to supplement it with people who care more about the project than 
> a few
> staffers who couldn't care less.

From what are you concluding that they couldn't care less?

> Things I have investigated:
> 1) The fact that the existence of a GNUstep Foundation gives more 
> presence to
> the community.
> 2) I know how to run a company (CLUE: The tagline at the end of my 
> post is not
> a made up company, I run a company in Maryland).  I have been a 
> consultant for
> a few years and in the industry for almost 15 years.
> 3) The in/outs of running a not-for-profit company/a Foundation and 
> the
> requirements for meeting the criteria with the IRS (here in the US).

Can you throw me references to past explanations of these, so I don't 
ask you to repeat, please?

By the way, in addition to previously posted experience with 
not-for-profits, I also run a corporation and previously co-directed a 
limited company.

> [...] I, however, simply feel that
> we should discuss all options before just jumping at one or the other.

Great! I'm glad we agree on this.

Most everything else was discussed in my reply to Alex Perez. Thanks 
for your answers.

--
MJR/slef    My Opinion Only and not of any group I know
 Creative copyleft computing - http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
LinuxExpo.org.uk village 6+7 Oct http://www.affs.org.uk