RE: [h-e-w] Annoying message in mini-buffer

[Bingham, Jay]

I would like to comment on Richard's proposal.

I agree with his assertion that the user should be provided with the ability to 
disable new features.  This is one of the attributes that makes emacs so 
powerful, the ability to make it be what you want it to be, unlike software 
provided by a company in Redmond where you get what they want you to have and 
you take it or leave it.

I do not agree with his suggestion that new features be turned off by default.  
What is the point of developing a new feature if everyone has to turn it on to 
use it.  It seems to me that before a new feature is included in emacs it 
undergoes an approval process where by a committee determines that it should be 
included.  If that is the case then the committee should also determine if the 
default configuration should be turned on or turned off.  I assume that is what 
is happening now and see no need to change that.

As for his assertion that "moving the mouse" is not a satisfactory solution, I 
think he is just embarrassed that he did not figure this out on his own.  I had 
no trouble figuring it out, and I did it without reading the manual, as I have 
been know to tell others to do.

J_)
C_)ingham
.    COMPAQ NonStop Integrity Systems
.    Austin, TX
. Language is the apparel in which your thoughts parade in public.
. Never clothe them in vulgar and shoddy attire. -Dr. George W. Crane-

 -----Original Message-----
From:   Richard M. Heiberger [mailto:address@hidden 
Sent:   Tuesday, 19 March, 2002 5:51 a
To:     Richard M. Heiberger; Jason Rumney
Cc:     address@hidden; address@hidden
Subject:        Re: [h-e-w] Annoying message in mini-buffer

Thank you for the information.  I will look at 21.2 as soon as the
windows precompiled version is available.

Since there is no official way to turn the echos off, let me propose
a uniform way to do so.  This is based on my set of functions.

First, I attempted to design my functions for general use.
For example, I use the same name dired-help-echo for the toggle function
and for the variable that controls the function.

Second, the general policy for emacs has been (I believe) to make new
features available and to allow users the option to revert to the previous
status should they choose to.  I, and from the mail, others as well,
prefer not to have the echos always on.

A single function that controlled all echos might have a syntax similar to
(defun echo-toggle (&rest args) .... )
and be used like this
(echo-toggle 'buff-menu nil 'dired nil 'help t)

The argument for turning off the echos is to minimize user confusion.
When I first wrote the list about this 6 months ago, I was confused
because messages that I needed to see were covered by the echos.
Moving the mouse is not a satisfactory solution, as that already
requires the knowledge that the mouse position is responsible for hiding
the messages.  In emacs 20 and the earlier 21.0.something releases, messages
were always visible.  Then when the echos were turned on the messages
ceased being visible unless the user was advanced enough to figure out why.
I would argue that echos off should be the default.

Rich