Re: Mailing list administration

[Manuel Menal]

Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> [bug-hurd removed, nothing to do with the Hurd]

[bug-hurd readded; I'm not really talking to Alfred here, but to everybody]

>    [...] Mr. Szmidt continues his perpetual stubornness.

> The only stubbornness is from Thomas Schwinge who has to stick his
> nose into everything, I was already taking care of the issue of the
> nonexistant mail moderation for HurdExtras _before_ he sent his
> totally offtopic message to the HurdExtras mailing list (Manuel Mammel
> had already notified me of the issue).  Having him stick his nose into
> the mess would just cause more work for me; hence the objection.

s/Mammel/Menal/.

> The message Thomas replied to was cut into small bits and all you saw
> was a categorical `No' without a reason.  The full message was: "I
> object to it.  I have already spoken to Barry deFrasse to do it."

This is a lie. I sent a first email to you asking if you were still
interested in hurdextras mailing list moderation on the 12th. You
answered you hadn't enough time, so I suggested Thomas Schwinge might be
fit for the job, since he already handles the other Hurd mailing lists.
This is what you answered on the 13th :

"I object to having Thomas Schwinge touch anything. I'll see with Barry
deFrasse if he wants to do it."

So, please don't go around saying that you'd already asked Barry to do
it and Thomas had to stick his nose afterwards. I do not object to Barry
being list admin, of course, but it was you who refused Thomas'
proposal, and therefore made things difficult.

As a side note, I want to relate a bit of my experience with Alfred and
the frustration it caused. I have been lurking around the Hurd for quite
a long time - writing translators/programs, helping people on IRC,
making small contribs. Like many of us, Alfred behaviour had made me
leave the #hurd channel for several years. I've only re-joined recently.
I tried, at first, not to stop answering people on help-hurd etc. Last
time I tried, Alfred just flamed me because I had not been clear enough
to his liking. So, I stopped all participation on the MLs, too.

As soon as Alfred was removed from bug-hurd, I came back on IRC and was
glad to find useful and cheerful discussions, like in the old times
before Alfred. I started contributing on the hurdextras project and was
made a project co-admin (thanks to James, and thanks to Thomas too for
his support). You'll note that I have not made a single contribution to
`hurdextras' since Alfred popped up again, because I have been too busy
answering his mails, trying to think of ways to avoid a flamewar, or
most of the time because I did not want to think about the Hurd when it
meant having to deal with Alfred.

Unfortunately, I was not the only one to stop working on the Hurd
because of Alfred. Michael has seen at least one french guy who was
sending his questions and suggestions to our mailing lists rather than
bug-hurd only to avoid Alfred.

That's why I totally support Thomas. Not having Thomas on the Hurd would
be a great loss - and I don't think I'd be really interested in
contributing any more if he was to quit, or at least not as much.

Thomas Bushnell also said:
> What happens if we just ignore the HurdExtras project?

I'd like to avoid that. We already have a project, an history, patches
there, a complete repository with several translators. I think we need a
Savannah project for that, and I don't think Savannah admins are going
to accept a "Hurdextras-without-ams" project while Hurdextras is still
there. I'll try to see with the Savannah guys how and whom to ask for
Alfred removal.

P.S.: I'm sorry if this mail is difficult to read. I am not a native
speaker and not used to such mails.

Hoping to see you back really soon, Thomas!

--
Manuel Menal