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Re: Locking support

From: bclark
Subject: Re: Locking support
Date: 04 Sep 2001 20:57:23 GMT
User-agent: tin/pre-1.4-981002 ("Phobia") (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.38 (i486))

Greg A. Woods <address@hidden> wrote:
: [ On Friday, August 31, 2001 at 16:15:31 (+0000), address@hidden wrote: ]
:> Subject: Re: Locking support

: If you're doing full OO design and development your developers should
: have a very good idea of who's working on what objects (and of course
: object definitions should all be in separate files too), so there should
: be even less likelihood of any concurrent editing than there is in
: procedural development (eg. where there are global variables, etc.)

What are talking about?  How many OO languages are familiar with?
I'll let you figure out where you have over-generalized here.

: However If you need (or even find it helpful for) your version control
: system to "warn" you of concurrent edits then that is a very strong
: indication of poor communications within your team, and/or an incomplete
: or poor software process model.  In an OO environment I'd expect you to
: have design tools to provide or facilitate this communications mechanism
: (and whether they're paper trails, e-mail or similar electronic forums,
: or more formal CAD tools, is irrelevant).

Thanks for the free "expectation".  Where can I cash that in.

: CVS is not a substitute for management, and CVS is not a substitute for
: developer communication.

Ok, so you've blindly insulted my groups communication practices and
management.  Any other baseless insults you'd like to sling?

:> Unfortunately, the Unix world is not the only world.  My company is currently
:> trying to push GUI based PVSC on us.  We are resisting with all the might we 
:> can muster.

: "PVCS" or "PVSC"?  I.e. Polytron Verson Control System?  If so then PVCS
: is not GUI-only.  Version 6.5 has four integrated UIs, including a full
: command-line interface that can easily be program driven.

PVCS.  And yes I am quite aware there is a command line version.  My
company has chosen not to spring for that.

: Maybe PVCS is the right tool for you!  Did you ever think of that?

Yes.  It is not.  I don't remember ever saying I was looking for a new
tool.  We are quite happy with CVS, despite the fact that it bugs you so
that we are "mis-using" it.

: (I used PVCS almost a couple of decades ago, and other than the fact
: that it was quite immature back then, I really didn't mind using it.)

:> Thus the "I don't know of" qualifier.  I write software for a living.  I 
:> don't evaluate version control software.  

: Any good mechanic has a great deal of familiarity with her or his tools.

What in the above sentence implies I am not familiar with my tools?
And who (besides yourself) are you quoting?

:> CVS was designed to...?  Geez thats a strong argument (not!).  Since when has
:> what something was designed for been a criteria for its use, especially this
:> long after it's initial inception.  If the only people who used CVS where 
:> those using it for what it was initially designed for, I venture to say you 
:> would probably be it's only user ;-)

: Welcome to the real world.  CVS's design certainly does have strong
: influence over its use and applicability!  After all that goal was
: very successfully built into the resulting tool and in such a way that
: working around it was hard to impossible.

Sure.  Writing a ten line perl script certainly is "hard to

: Also, who's to say that this design goal is still not an important facet
: of the current version of the tool.  Sure it's been watered down a bit
: with stupid add-on afterthoughts, but everyone who tries to work around
: the primary design goal of CVS has almost certainly encountered many
: scenarios where they don't get full satisfaction as a result.

If you want to try to speak for "everyone" Greg, please leave us out.
We have NOT had the problems you mention.

: Finally are you really sure I'm the only person who finds concurrent
: development to be an important aspect of any medium to large project?
: I'd venture to say that *ALL* of the major users of CVS use it primarily
: for its ability to support concurrent (parallel) development in
: traditional source-code projects.  The *BSD projects leap instantly to
: mind, but there are many other very large projects, both public and
: private, using CVS primarily because of this ability.  To all of these
: projects the client/server ability is still only secondary.

I never said that...Thus the rest of the above paragraph is pretty
much irrelevant.

: However personally as a mostly one-man shop I use CVS primarily only for
: its ability to manage vendor branches (even though this is also only a
: secondary feature of CVS and one with which there are MANY problems! :-).

Hmm.  Maybe you should reconsider your use of CVS instead of
reconsidering mine :-)

[Unsolicited recommendations removed]

: I would only likely choose CVS for a larger project if all of the
: developers already had a deep understanding of, and lots of experience
: with, CVS in such projects.

Hmm.  That pretty much describes us.

:> One of the things I like about CVS is that it doesn't try to be a complete
:> source control package.  It allows development groups to tailor it to there
:> needs and personal preferences.

: Indeed!  On this we agree.  Perhaps though this means you should look
: outside of CVS for the tools you need to facilitate inter-developer
: communications!  :-)

When exactly did source control become a religion?  And how do you
know so much about the lack of communication and management in my
group?  Is that your hidden camera above our cubicles?  Are you the
God version control software?  Are you ever wrong about anything?  Are
you ever right about anything?

Five more things come time in response to your know-it-all attitude on
this subject (take your pick):

-Everything you have said is completely wrong.
-Everything you have said is completely right (and this is bizaro
-regardless of how irrelevant your point is, you will get the last word
 on this subject.
-Your tie is a bit too tight.
-You don't know what you are talking about (you just play someone who
does on this newsgroup)

Brian Clark -- Software Design/Development Consultant|
address@hidden              |
Pools of sorrow, waves of joy are drifting through my open mind, |
Possessing and caressing me. -- John Lennon, Across the Universe |

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