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Re: Problems with Attic permissions

From: Noel Yap
Subject: Re: Problems with Attic permissions
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:13:45 -0700 (PDT)

--- Anne McCaffrey <address@hidden> wrote:
> I have not invited any 'thoughts' or 'opinions' on
> how
> I am using cvs.If you can't answer my question, pls
> don't reply;we can go on arguing about the pros and
> cons of someone's practices.I don't see any point in
> it.

If you want to be so defensive and not want to gain
anything from the experts on this list, so be it.

I'm trying not to question the decision of not being
able to "cvs rm".  OTOH, I know I wouldn't ever want
to work within such an environment (either due to
managements decision or due to developers' actions
that forced the decision).

> > Greg has a good point.  The way in which you are
> > trying to use CVS is
> > silly.
> > 
> Looks like you didn't read my question properly.

I believe you were trying to achieve two things
(please correct me if I'm wrong):
1. prevent users from using "cvs rm"
2. prevent users from circumventing the cvs server to
manually remove files

I think 1 would best be served using a commit script
and that 2 would best be served by using SSH to
control logins to the server.  Note that if you don't
fix 2, fixing 1 is pretty much useless (assuming your
developers aren't smart enough to use "cvs rm" so as
not to disrupt others).

I also think that 2 was caused by 1.  For example, if
developers were able to "cvs rm", they wouldn't feel a
need to go directly into the repository to remove

> I never said that.I use a script to prevent cvs rm.
> We altered Attic permissions to prevent users from
> manually deleting Attic files.

I see.  And you never answered one of my questions: 
How do you prevent users from deleting non-Attic

I think what we've all been trying to get at (and to
which you haven't been trying to listen), is that
managing permissions is the wrong tool to use.

> I don't see how.Why would your work stop if you are
> not able to cvs remove a file that you don't use
> anyway?Can't you do it locally and build?I think it
> doesn't matter if that file is removed after due
> consideration.

I think it's akin to saying that developers are not
allowed to remove functions or variables.

The reason I think it does matter is that the removal
was probably part of some other developer task
(perhaps the developer refactored the code?). 
Checking everything in with one commit greatly helps
in tracking changes.  Granted, this is not a developer
concern, but it is a configuration management concern.
 Now, a way around this would be to use task branches.
 Are you using task branches?  If so, how much
overhead are you experiencing managing them?

> My question was "Why is cvs trying to read from
> Attic
> when I do cvs add"

If you could post the CVS/Entries file, we might be
able to help.


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