Re: Merging in CVS

['Thomas S. Urban']

I'm curious if the feedback about how "CVS handles merges poorly" is
about the automatic merge action or the way conflicts are presented? I'm
guessing the latter.  If you'll listen to what people here are saying, I
think you'll find the answer to your question:

  - CVS and clear case both do the same things for merging (automatic if
    possible, require user intervention if not)

  - if editing files to deal with conflicts is distasteful to you or
    your developers, conflict resolution tools exist or can easily be
    written that should please your editor-phobic developers.  I'm sure
    if you look you can find a tool that matches the capabilities of the
    clearcase one.

  - using this and other tools in conjunction with CVS is a matter of
    policy and/or administration - it is your responsibility to show or
    tell people how to use the tools, or provides scripts or commands or
    other automation so it happens as appropriate


On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 13:53:58 -0500, MacMunn, Robert sent 5.1K bytes:
> We have 3 CM tools within the whole comapny.  CVS, Perforce, and Clearcase.
> 
> Management wants to go with 1 tool.  They feel Clearcase is too expensive,
> and it can be.  I am a Clearcase guy, but know the cost.  So, Perforce seems
> limited, CVS seems to be able to handle all that we need.  I just need to
> make sure that there aren't any gotcha's.  
> 
> >From the feedback I am getting from other CVS users is that CVS handles
> merges poorly.  I am not here to start an arguement on which is the better
> CM tool.  I am not closed minded to think that because I know Clearcase,
> that it is the best tool.  I am trying to find out where we may have
> problems with release engineering and developers.  The graphical merge tool
> Clearacse has saves a lot of time, and it is part of Clearcase.  The cost of
> Clearcase is just too astronomical now  and like I said CVS seems to have
> all that we need.  I am just trying to figure out what we gain and what we
> lose.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 'Thomas S. Urban' [mailto:address@hidden
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:39 PM
> To: MacMunn, Robert
> Cc: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: Merging in CVS
> 
> 
> So use Clearcase if it provides something you can't live without.  I'm
> only trying to point out that logically, the operations are the same
> (the timing may be a little different), e.g:
> 
>   1 You request an update of local file to newest version in repository
>   2 CVS will merge new version and local changes (if any) automatically,
>     (if possible)
>   3 If automatic merge is not possible, CVS forces user to *manually*
>     resolve conflicts
> 
> If you can show my how clearcase behaves differently than this
> *logically*, then maybe you've got a point (and maybe I'll start using
> clearcase since it would then have the ability to read my mind).
> 
> Everthing else is just interfaces and easy of use, both of which are
> qualities easy to remedy through toolsmithing, IMO.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 13:28:02 -0500, MacMunn, Robert sent 3.0K bytes:
> > It isn't a slick interface. In Clearcase it is the merge tool itself that
> > gives you the ability to deal with the conflicts easily.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 'Thomas S. Urban' [mailto:address@hidden
> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:27 PM
> > To: MacMunn, Robert
> > Cc: address@hidden
> > Subject: Re: Merging in CVS
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 13:17:12 -0500, MacMunn, Robert sent 1.7K bytes:
> > > Not at all.  In Clearcase you have a graphical interface where the
> > conflicts
> > > can be taken care of as the merge happens.  No manual editting of files.
> > 
> > A nice tool with a graphical interface is still a manual tool.  It may
> > be easier to use than a simple text editor (but why would you use a
> > simple text editor?), but both process are manual versus automatic.  
> > Perhaps the time the manual work happens is significant, I don't know,
> > but it still happens.
> > 
> > Graphical interfaces for dealing with the conflict markers CVS produces
> > probably exist, either with one of the many GUI clients, or with emacs.
> > The vim plugin I use highlights them specially.  If I cared, I could
> > write easy vim functions that would take one version or the other for
> > each conflict.  But it rarely comes up in our usage (i.e. including good
> > communication), so I don't care all that much about slick interfaces to
> > conflict resolution.
> > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Thomas S. Urban [mailto:address@hidden
> > > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:16 PM
> > > To: MacMunn, Robert
> > > Cc: address@hidden
> > > Subject: Re: Merging in CVS
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 12:23:56 -0500, MacMunn, Robert sent 0.9K bytes:
> > > > Thanks.  Looks like merges must be difficult in CVS.  A lot of manual
> > > work.
> > > 
> > > Most of the time, merges happen automatically.  Manual intervention is
> > > only required when they can't happen automatically. Conflicts always
> > > take (some amount) of a manual work. Merges never do.  I don't see how
> > > you can get around this fact in any system, short of exclusivity.
> > > 
> > > Looks like you may be confused by terminology. RTFM.
> > > 
> > > HTH
> > > Scott
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Kaz Kylheku [mailto:address@hidden
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 12:18 PM
> > > > To: MacMunn, Robert
> > > > Cc: address@hidden
> > > > Subject: Re: Merging in CVS
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, MacMunn, Robert wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I am new to CVS.  I am testing out merging.
> > > > > 
> > > > > When I merged 2 files I got extra lines teling me where the merged
> > lines
> > > > > where.
> > > > > Is there any way around this ?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ex.
> > > > > The <<<<<<< and >>>>>  delimit the merged lines.
> > > > 
> > > > No, they delimit conflicts. You can't get around conflicts. You must
> > > > resolve them when they occur, and you can't prevent them from
> occuring,
> > > > unless people working independently magically stay out of each other's
> > > > way.
> > > > 
> > > > RTFM!
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Info-cvs mailing list
> > > > address@hidden
> > > > http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
> > 
> > -- 
> > Stupidity is its own reward.
> 
> -- 
> Building translators is good clean fun.
>               -- T. Cheatham

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