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Re: Report critical Bugs

From: bill-auger
Subject: Re: Report critical Bugs
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2022 03:06:56 -0400

On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 03:47:16 +0000 A wrote:
> Jami is fantastic app but has some primary critical bugs!
> You can't delete or edit sent message why?
> Please solve it

im pretty sure that is not a bug - generally speaking, for any
networking application, redaction is a fiction - the internet
simply does not work that way - once you post some information
to the network, it is out of your control, and you have no way
to know where it goes - jami is relatively private; but still
you can not know what the receiver does with the information
that you send - it is most reasonable to assume that everything
you send across the internet is permanent; because anyone who
receives it, is able to save it permanently, somehow

if all messages are stored on a server (such as a web forum,
twitter, mastodon, matrix, whatever), the server could delete
the message, so that no one else may receive it; but anyone who
has already received the message can keep a copy forever - that
can not be prevented - search engines spiders and archival
spiders such as archive.org do exactly that, routinely - even
with federated systems such as mastodon and matrix, even if your
home-server honors the request to delete - all other servers
in the network may still keep it, and continue delivering it to
anyone who requests it

jami has no server - all messages are sent directly to other
peers; so only the intended receivers can "find" them - but
still, regardless of what the jami devs implement, whoever you
sent the message to may keep it, or re-transmit it to others -
for example, that person could be broadcasting their desktop
live to youtube, twitch, or whatever, with thousands of people
watching - any of those viewers could also be making copies of
your messages, by saving the video stream - guaranteed total
redaction is essentially an impossible request to fulfill, for
any networking application

the most that any p2p protocol (such as jami) could do, would be
to send a request to everyone who has received the message,
_asking_ to delete it - a proprietary client may honor the
request dutifully, and the user could not prevent it; but with
free software, the user of the client could always modify the
software, such that it will never delete messages, even when
asked by the sender

likewise with editing - some systems have a feature to edit
the original message "in-place"; but still the original message
has already been received and probably has been read by someone -
the "edit" feature can only _ask_ the receivers to change it -
but none must do so - and especially if the receiver has already
read the message, there is really no point in editing it

im not absolutely sure how jami works; but with some p2p systems
such as SSB, it is fundamentally impossible to delete any
messages, without deleting the complete conversation history -
but still, the sender can only _ask_ peers who have the messages
to delete them - but none must do so

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