Re: Lilypond structure / implicit - explicit / with statement

[Bernard]

On 04-04-16 23:58, David Sumbler wrote:
> I have been using Lilypond for a few years now (but admittedly there are
> always periods of weeks or months at a time when I haven't touched it,
> which of course makes things much more difficult to retain).
>
> I still find the whole thing rather cryptic, and I do think that
> Bernard's remark about Godolvsky errors is perceptive and relevant.  A
> few of the replies that have been given imply that things are pretty
> obvious when, for some, they simply are not.  When one is very familiar
> with and well-immersed in a subject, it is often hard or impossible to
> understand what another intelligent person finds so obscure or difficult
> about it.
Hi David and others,

Thanks for your understanding.

I wanted to stop. It took to much time for me with to less results.

But the overwhelming responses made me doubt. You all spend a lot of 
time to help me, and even responded when I decided to quite using Lilypond.

In general your response was positive and constructive.

The code suggestions I got mostly just worked. But then I wanted to 
alter a minor item (I thought) and that influenced the code. I did not 
get grip on Lilypond.
What I do is not wanting ask you for every detail. That takes to much of 
your and mine time.

That said I still have positive feelings about Lilypond and this 
usersgroup.

I have read all your replies. But did not check the given examples. I 
lost the feeling it could solve my problem, especially when if I made a 
minor change into those examples.

My remarks :
The Coldosky error is an important error. That knowledge control the way 
I want to work. It is a feed back mechanism.

Playing African music like Djembe is a not written music. So everything 
has to be done from the start.
Without the basic experience with other instruments and music notation.

In the exceptional case someone does write Africa Djembe music down, it 
is very slovenly. But it written down by a Djembe teacher who can play 
Djembe well, and as student you can not play well. So the teacher is all 
ways right, even is he is wrong.
The only way to check this Coldosky error to generate Djembe sound using 
midi and a Djembe soundfont. It the music is written down with an a 
wrong note, the sound will be improper, and the teacher will hear this 
himself. So there is a feedback to improve quality.
Knowing the existence of the Coldosky error, can help to prevent it.
With this feedback the note's can be written down as it should be, and 
it can be used to play from.

An other problem are those, whole playing Djembe, are amateurs, who turn 
their head away for something which looks like written music. So if 
music is written down, it should be as easy as possible. Realy, realy 
easy. Do not under estimate the fear for written music. It is to complex 
for them, they feel, to understand.
The next thing when practise, the midi sound can be played for exercise 
in a very low tempo. And slowly increasing when there is more 
experience. When even further you can let the sound of others Djembe 
play with midi, and play your own track yourself.
Ideal for practice.
Midi supports, and associated programs, like f.e. LMMS, does support 
this all. It is just important to generate the correct midi file, with 
Lilypond.

That was the reason for a special Djembe notation, which is possible in 
Lilypond. It is no luxery, just a requirement to be used. To learn to 
play Djembe.
In the same time it can be a help to prevent the loss of some African 
music, just because the fact it is not written down. The African youth 
does not play the original rhythms any more.

This background is important to understand my choices.

Some replies on the response :
Goldosky error is important here, as a similarity. If you read that 
careful you often have implicit knowledge, of which you are surprised 
the other does not have that knowledge. Only the mistake made by the 
other might be an indication there is some implicit knowledge involved.

I do not want to be be an advanced Lilypond user. I just want to use it. 
And when ready only the note's of a different rhythm changes.

Noeck gave me the syntax of a statement. I really did like that. That 
gave me much information.

Johannes Waldman mention the mental modal. Lilypond is no Object 
orientation programming but a functional language. Nothing wrong with 
that, but very important to know. That interpretation is important to 
get an idea of the code.

As said, you, David Sumbler did understood the Coldosky error. You 
suggested to improve the manual with a Lilypond specialist. I would add 
to this, only together with a newbie, again to prevent to Coldosky 
error. Just an HTML page(s) with a statement. And with that statement a 
hyper link to dig into that statement for details. With syntax (for 
programmers) with example working code, AND with example mistakes. And 
why this is a mistake. If a mistake is often made in this newsgroup it 
can be added. And so let knowledge accumulate .

Implicit are easy and compact to use, but can be very confusing and 
difficult to read. There should be a clear explicit documentation added.

For me, I had al most (at least I thought so ) working code. The only 
thing I had to do is adding swing in the layout (from which I do have a 
working example) and in the midi (from which I also have a working 
example). And may some fine tuning like assign code to a variable or 
function, so it can be called. Then I could only work on the specific 
rhythms. But I lost the trust it can be done in an acceptable time.

I feel I was more then obliged to respond. May be this can be of any 
help to other users.

Thanks all for you support,

greetings

Bernard