Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Quad Tilt Rotor using Lisa/M

[Chris Gough]

Yann Lecun's VERTI4 looks about the span Mark is suggesting, but only 450g. At 
12 times the wing loading, the wings will just be decoration.

Chris Gough

On 16/01/2014, at 8:19 PM, Reto Büttner <address@hidden> wrote:

> Hi Mark
> 
> I am sure the Lisa/M from the Quadshot can be adapted to meet your
> needs. Piotr Esden-Tempski and Christophe de Wagter know a lot about
> the transition technology. They might be able to help you.
> 
> Just some general inputs to transition technology:
> 
> - The goal is to have a VTOL aircraft that flys faster and further
> than a traditional helicopter, multicopter or gyrocopter.
> - Transition technology is quite complex. To make it pay you should
> achieve at least 150% the speed and 200% the range/endurance of a
> comparable traditional helicopter, multicopter or gyrocopter. You
> better design for 200% speed and 300% range/endurance.
> - This efficiency is not easy to achieve. Many current designs barely
> reach the required efficiency, like the Quadshot or the Osprey. Both
> lack an efficient wing for cruise flight. The quadshot additionally
> lacks an efficient propulsion in cruise flight, the Ospray does that
> better having variable pitch props. The lack in performance might be a
> reason why the Quadshot hasn't found wide use yet.
> - Therefore DARPA has launched a new development programm for a VTOL
> aircraft with better performance:
> http://defense-update.com/20131213_sikorsky-aurora-flight-sciences-develop-vtol-x-planes-darpa.html
> - You need a concept to achieve the required efficiency. You should
> consider variable pitch props, use only two of the four props in
> cruise flight or have some other smart idea. Otherwise you are not
> likely to achieve the required efficiency.
> - Tilt rotors are quite complex. They should only be used if the
> fuselage needs to be horizontal all the time, like for a troop carrier
> as the Osprey. If that is not required, a concept that tilts the whole
> airframe is preferred, like the Sikorsky X-Plane, the NASA Puffin or
> the Quadshot.
> - Your concept has been solved already back in 2007/2008 by the Verti4
> (Yann Lecun, France) using standard RC components only:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI-yHsQBVv8
> http://verti4.blogspot.de/
> 
> Cheers
> Reto
> 
> 2014/1/16 Richardson, Mark E C1C USAF USAFA CW/CS13
> <address@hidden>:
>> Yes, we are essentially attempting to show a customer the capability of
>> long(er) range flight out of something that can land and take off like a
>> quadrotor. There are many many parts to this project, however; for example
>> it has to be able to deploy from a folded configuration to a final
>> configuration. A company provided an awesome inflatable wing that can be
>> inflated with a CO2 cartridge. And we are currently working on the
>> folding/tilting arms. I have spent a great deal of time trying to figure out
>> the best motor/prop combo for this setup and it looks like we will go with
>> the Avroto 3015 kv400’s from Monto RC as well as their 15”props.  The 12lbs
>> is for total weight including a 5lb of payload that can be anything from an
>> array of sensors to an extra battery pack…
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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