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From: David Conger
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Re : PAPARAZZI UAV ON PIXHAWK TEASER
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 15:11:39 -0800

There must be a translation error here. Maybe something to learn like
we did from the DIY post.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Felix Ruess <address@hidden> wrote:
> David,
> I don't believe that...
> There are lots of great people and projects out there (and yes that includes
> the DIY drones crowd!).
> And most of them don't have financial goals in mind, but rather are Open
> Source Enthusiasts as well!
> They make cool stuff and share it with the world, just like us... isn't that
> enough?
> And just because there was some bad blood in a few DIY drones discussions in
> the past, that doesn't mean that goes for everyone there or that is has to
> continue in that vein.
> Why should the interaction with other people sharing the same passions
> (Drones) that just happen to use other hardware/software be be avoided?
> If the discussions are conducted on an open minded and friendly level
> everyone benefits!
> I can't blame anyone for being upset or irritated by the post, since I am
> too!
> Let's please just try not to go down the road of insinuations, boisterous
> claims and weird comparisons. Stay on the level of actual facts.
> There is already enough subtext/context lost in textual communication, so
> everyone should take extra care with the tone of messages.
> Also the other way round: it's easy to read something into a message that
> wasn't intended by the poster, so if in doubt err on the positive/nice side.
> Flame wars, more or less hidden accusations and angry messages don't benefit
> anyone and are just totally counter-productive and tiresome. We should all
> hold ourselves to higher standards than that. And often we just have to
> agree that we disagree on things... and that's fine.
> I feel the Paparazzi UAV community is a generally a very friendly, helpful
> and open minded bunch and we should conduct ourselves in that way regardless
> with whom we interact.
> Just my 2 cents...
> Cheers, Felix
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 10:46 PM, David Conger <address@hidden>
> wrote:
>> Interesting, I just read the DIY posts.
>> My first reaction though is not a surprise. Ardupilot people are
>> easily upset and predominately Americans who are easily upset. As an
>> American who has traveled extensively I see it very clearly now.
>> Having met the TUDelft people personally I know they would have no
>> intention of posting anything in a way to upset anyone. I'm taken back
>> really the depths the mob came out to burn the orig. poster at the
>> stake for the well intended but badly translated message.
>> I have been burned many times at the stake by the same mob over the
>> years since 2007. The posts that were not deleted off DIYDrones site
>> remain on site. Anything critical, even implied via the
>> reader not writer, is attacked with venom. Just their way. I don't
>> judge them as bad I only know you must handle them with extreme care.
>> I will say, even offer, that English is my first language and I have
>> been at this since 2007 watching and interacting with all the major
>> players online. I know this group well from personal experiences. On
>> RCGroups from the very top of 3DR and DIY they monitor the threads and
>> redirect all new posters over to DIY websites where the content is
>> strictly controlled to be pro Ardupilot and 3DR.
>> If the mob had turned against DIY or 3DR the thread would be quickly
>> closed, content removed/edited. There's a long history of that there.
>> It is why I really hesitate to go there or post there. RCGroups is a
>> much friendlier place to have non-3DR non-Ardupilot related discussion
>> but just expect the usual redirection posts saying to go to DIYDrones
>> site by those monitoring and wanting more business driven over to
>> there. It gets hostile there also but it's a lot better than DIY.
>> The bigger question to be asked I think is why do we continue to want
>> the blessing of DIY? By every measure I think matters Paparazzi
>> Project is a huge global success. So why would something so obviously
>> successful on every measure other than financial to go there to
>> interact with them? I encourage everyone in the developer's list to
>> realize this success requires no affirmation from that mob. The only
>> place financial success is glorified is in America and nothing
>> reinforces that like what you see happen in that post. There is a
>> saying, belief in America that the only truly sacred thing is someones
>> financial position. Never attack someones paycheck or ability to grow
>> theirs. When an American feels that threatened look out.
>> Why do I write this?  Well, same reason I am still here. Why I still
>> would hand solder Paparazzi hardware in quantities of 1,2,3 or so for
>> zero profit. Because I do not need affirmation from anyone it's the
>> right thing to do or that I'm a success measured in dollars. I feel
>> very successful to still offer myself and Paparazzi hardware to anyone
>> even if they only want a single one. PPZUAV (my company) is
>> self-funded and always will be. Sure, once a long time ago there was
>> that window of opportunity before DIY corporation was born but I have
>> no regrets keeping PPZUAV completely under my control and financially
>> independent. I have zero debt. I always have, personally and the
>> company.
>> I want never at any time to make choices aimed only at financial gain
>> or ego. I see the mess it causes and how financial success is an empty
>> path unless it is found by accident or as a secondary unintended
>> consequence of just being very good at what you do. Meaning to be
>> financially successful simply by doing what is correct and right
>> morally and for the planet is a very good thing and I endorse it
>> completely. However, to have a company created only to make a profit
>> is a difficult path with much peril for those who walk it. I make no
>> condemnation of anyone doing it.
>> In my eyes the core that started Paparazzi is still alive as a
>> separate thing that has no consideration for monetary gain. Everyone
>> who does Paparazzi should have another source of income to keep this
>> separation. Paparazzi by just existing still after all these years is
>> the truest form of affirmation. I really encourage all involved to
>> think hard about real success and focus on encouraging each other and
>> helping each other because no one from 3DR or DIY will ever seem to
>> change. I just had a friend tell me they read in WIred Magazine that a
>> person we all know claims they invented the drone not
>> Al Gore but you're getting warm. ;)
>> The best way to grow Paparazzi is to continue doing what you do and
>> know that success matters in what you do not what you say or how much
>> profit you make doing it. This is to me a wonderful chance to stop and
>> look at each other, smile and be happy we have each other and look to
>> so many more years of success in research, sciences, and thing that
>> matter for the planet that needs us more than ever right now. Do not
>> seek anything from DIY crowd as it's an empty path to join or be a
>> part of something that measures success purely as units sold and
>> dollars made.
>> On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:28 AM, address@hidden
>> <address@hidden> wrote:
>> > Strange post. Seems to come from Delft, did someone get into contact
>> > with
>> > them? If we make a global reply, you can add my name to the signing if
>> > needed. Unfortunately I don't have much internet access time.
>> >
>> > Gautier
>> >
>> > Envoyé depuis mon mobile Orange
>> >
>> > ----- Reply message -----
>> > De : "Alexandre Bustico" <address@hidden>
>> > Pour : "Paparazzi UAV devel list" <address@hidden>
>> > Objet : [Paparazzi-devel] PAPARAZZI UAV ON PIXHAWK TEASER
>> > Date : mer., mars 2, 2016 15:43
>> >
>> > Le 02/03/2016 15:38, Felix Ruess a écrit :
>> >
>> > Definitely not endorsed by myself...
>> > It really shouldn't say "The Paparazzi dev team" as it doesn't reflect
>> > the
>> > view of every dev member/contributor, certainly not mine!
>> >
>> > On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Martin Mueller <address@hidden> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Nice to see support for Pixhawk
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> But why advertise it so aggressively, almost dumb? Who wrote that, why
>> >> does it
>> >> say "The Paparazzi dev team"?
>> >>
>> >> _
>> >
>> >
>> > Probably written after to many hours or days without sleeping, giving
>> > some
>> > excuse to the one who post.
>> > Anyway, we probably, as a team, apologize for this aggressive post which
>> > deserve us...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Alexandre
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Paparazzi-devel mailing list
>> > address@hidden
>> >
>> >
>> --
>> address@hidden
>> _______________________________________________
>> Paparazzi-devel mailing list
>> address@hidden
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