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From: David Conger
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Re : PAPARAZZI UAV ON PIXHAWK TEASER
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 15:14:38 -0800

Let me be direct.
There is the Left, the Right and the middle. I seek always the middle.
Am I a human who falls short absolutely. Hence I am trying to be very

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 3:11 PM, David Conger <address@hidden> wrote:
> Felix,
> There must be a translation error here. Maybe something to learn like
> we did from the DIY post.
> David
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Felix Ruess <address@hidden> wrote:
>> David,
>> I don't believe that...
>> There are lots of great people and projects out there (and yes that includes
>> the DIY drones crowd!).
>> And most of them don't have financial goals in mind, but rather are Open
>> Source Enthusiasts as well!
>> They make cool stuff and share it with the world, just like us... isn't that
>> enough?
>> And just because there was some bad blood in a few DIY drones discussions in
>> the past, that doesn't mean that goes for everyone there or that is has to
>> continue in that vein.
>> Why should the interaction with other people sharing the same passions
>> (Drones) that just happen to use other hardware/software be be avoided?
>> If the discussions are conducted on an open minded and friendly level
>> everyone benefits!
>> I can't blame anyone for being upset or irritated by the post, since I am
>> too!
>> Let's please just try not to go down the road of insinuations, boisterous
>> claims and weird comparisons. Stay on the level of actual facts.
>> There is already enough subtext/context lost in textual communication, so
>> everyone should take extra care with the tone of messages.
>> Also the other way round: it's easy to read something into a message that
>> wasn't intended by the poster, so if in doubt err on the positive/nice side.
>> Flame wars, more or less hidden accusations and angry messages don't benefit
>> anyone and are just totally counter-productive and tiresome. We should all
>> hold ourselves to higher standards than that. And often we just have to
>> agree that we disagree on things... and that's fine.
>> I feel the Paparazzi UAV community is a generally a very friendly, helpful
>> and open minded bunch and we should conduct ourselves in that way regardless
>> with whom we interact.
>> Just my 2 cents...
>> Cheers, Felix
>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 10:46 PM, David Conger <address@hidden>
>> wrote:
>>> Interesting, I just read the DIY posts.
>>> My first reaction though is not a surprise. Ardupilot people are
>>> easily upset and predominately Americans who are easily upset. As an
>>> American who has traveled extensively I see it very clearly now.
>>> Having met the TUDelft people personally I know they would have no
>>> intention of posting anything in a way to upset anyone. I'm taken back
>>> really the depths the mob came out to burn the orig. poster at the
>>> stake for the well intended but badly translated message.
>>> I have been burned many times at the stake by the same mob over the
>>> years since 2007. The posts that were not deleted off DIYDrones site
>>> remain on site. Anything critical, even implied via the
>>> reader not writer, is attacked with venom. Just their way. I don't
>>> judge them as bad I only know you must handle them with extreme care.
>>> I will say, even offer, that English is my first language and I have
>>> been at this since 2007 watching and interacting with all the major
>>> players online. I know this group well from personal experiences. On
>>> RCGroups from the very top of 3DR and DIY they monitor the threads and
>>> redirect all new posters over to DIY websites where the content is
>>> strictly controlled to be pro Ardupilot and 3DR.
>>> If the mob had turned against DIY or 3DR the thread would be quickly
>>> closed, content removed/edited. There's a long history of that there.
>>> It is why I really hesitate to go there or post there. RCGroups is a
>>> much friendlier place to have non-3DR non-Ardupilot related discussion
>>> but just expect the usual redirection posts saying to go to DIYDrones
>>> site by those monitoring and wanting more business driven over to
>>> there. It gets hostile there also but it's a lot better than DIY.
>>> The bigger question to be asked I think is why do we continue to want
>>> the blessing of DIY? By every measure I think matters Paparazzi
>>> Project is a huge global success. So why would something so obviously
>>> successful on every measure other than financial to go there to
>>> interact with them? I encourage everyone in the developer's list to
>>> realize this success requires no affirmation from that mob. The only
>>> place financial success is glorified is in America and nothing
>>> reinforces that like what you see happen in that post. There is a
>>> saying, belief in America that the only truly sacred thing is someones
>>> financial position. Never attack someones paycheck or ability to grow
>>> theirs. When an American feels that threatened look out.
>>> Why do I write this?  Well, same reason I am still here. Why I still
>>> would hand solder Paparazzi hardware in quantities of 1,2,3 or so for
>>> zero profit. Because I do not need affirmation from anyone it's the
>>> right thing to do or that I'm a success measured in dollars. I feel
>>> very successful to still offer myself and Paparazzi hardware to anyone
>>> even if they only want a single one. PPZUAV (my company) is
>>> self-funded and always will be. Sure, once a long time ago there was
>>> that window of opportunity before DIY corporation was born but I have
>>> no regrets keeping PPZUAV completely under my control and financially
>>> independent. I have zero debt. I always have, personally and the
>>> company.
>>> I want never at any time to make choices aimed only at financial gain
>>> or ego. I see the mess it causes and how financial success is an empty
>>> path unless it is found by accident or as a secondary unintended
>>> consequence of just being very good at what you do. Meaning to be
>>> financially successful simply by doing what is correct and right
>>> morally and for the planet is a very good thing and I endorse it
>>> completely. However, to have a company created only to make a profit
>>> is a difficult path with much peril for those who walk it. I make no
>>> condemnation of anyone doing it.
>>> In my eyes the core that started Paparazzi is still alive as a
>>> separate thing that has no consideration for monetary gain. Everyone
>>> who does Paparazzi should have another source of income to keep this
>>> separation. Paparazzi by just existing still after all these years is
>>> the truest form of affirmation. I really encourage all involved to
>>> think hard about real success and focus on encouraging each other and
>>> helping each other because no one from 3DR or DIY will ever seem to
>>> change. I just had a friend tell me they read in WIred Magazine that a
>>> person we all know claims they invented the drone not
>>> Al Gore but you're getting warm. ;)
>>> The best way to grow Paparazzi is to continue doing what you do and
>>> know that success matters in what you do not what you say or how much
>>> profit you make doing it. This is to me a wonderful chance to stop and
>>> look at each other, smile and be happy we have each other and look to
>>> so many more years of success in research, sciences, and thing that
>>> matter for the planet that needs us more than ever right now. Do not
>>> seek anything from DIY crowd as it's an empty path to join or be a
>>> part of something that measures success purely as units sold and
>>> dollars made.
>>> On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:28 AM, address@hidden
>>> <address@hidden> wrote:
>>> > Strange post. Seems to come from Delft, did someone get into contact
>>> > with
>>> > them? If we make a global reply, you can add my name to the signing if
>>> > needed. Unfortunately I don't have much internet access time.
>>> >
>>> > Gautier
>>> >
>>> > Envoyé depuis mon mobile Orange
>>> >
>>> > ----- Reply message -----
>>> > De : "Alexandre Bustico" <address@hidden>
>>> > Pour : "Paparazzi UAV devel list" <address@hidden>
>>> > Objet : [Paparazzi-devel] PAPARAZZI UAV ON PIXHAWK TEASER
>>> > Date : mer., mars 2, 2016 15:43
>>> >
>>> > Le 02/03/2016 15:38, Felix Ruess a écrit :
>>> >
>>> > Definitely not endorsed by myself...
>>> > It really shouldn't say "The Paparazzi dev team" as it doesn't reflect
>>> > the
>>> > view of every dev member/contributor, certainly not mine!
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Martin Mueller <address@hidden> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Nice to see support for Pixhawk
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> But why advertise it so aggressively, almost dumb? Who wrote that, why
>>> >> does it
>>> >> say "The Paparazzi dev team"?
>>> >>
>>> >> _
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Probably written after to many hours or days without sleeping, giving
>>> > some
>>> > excuse to the one who post.
>>> > Anyway, we probably, as a team, apologize for this aggressive post which
>>> > deserve us...
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Alexandre
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Paparazzi-devel mailing list
>>> > address@hidden
>>> >
>>> >
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