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Re: [Ranger-users] ranger infrastructure

From: Roman Z.
Subject: Re: [Ranger-users] ranger infrastructure
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:44:54 +0200
User-agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)

First of all, thank you for all your opinions!  I don't record any
statistics, so your feedback is important.

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 05:03:03PM +0100, Michishige Kaito wrote:
> As far as I can tell, you have everything you need with Savannah. What
> you do have is a lot of redundant stuff, but that shouldn't bother
> you. Just keep Savannah clean and up to date.

Savannah provides a lot, but no forum or wiki.  The issue tracker
*could* be abused as a Q&A system, but it's really uncomfortable to

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 07:36:29PM +0300, Mantas wrote:
> * Bitbucket or Github for code hosting, bug tracker and wiki. (And Mercurial
>   for DVCS :) )

I'm not comfortable with using proprietary, commercial services for
anything other than the necessary :S

> * Read the Docs [1] for documentation.

Looks nice, but I wonder if it's really necessary.  There's really only
the man pages (ranger(1) and rifle(1)) and the README file.

> * Unix/Linux StackExcange for Q/A [2]

Also looks like a proprietary, commercial service to me, probably gonna
be bought by google in a year or two. D=

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 06:58:35PM +0200, Jostein Berntsen wrote:
> I believe Redmine would cover it all with presentaion, bug tracker,
> forum, download site, wiki and more. The easiest way might be to keep it at
> github and set up a wiki and project page at the ranger site there. I find
> github very convenient with these features. I am into the same process for
> vimoutliner in short time actually, and we chose github. 

I intend to keep the main git host at savannah, because it has been the
official git repo since the beginning, and savannah is run by gnu people.
I really only want to keep github as a git host because many programmers
find it convenient and it's their favored platform for contributing code.

> The Arch Linux thread should kept as it is, I think, it has a load of great
> info.

I'd prefer to close it.  The thread may contain much information, but
it's a pain to find and cross-reference it.

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 09:45:32PM +0100, Joshua Landau wrote:
> Gah! This is too many!
> For Savannah, I would abandon all but the mailing list and all the homepage
> pages, as they are the only pages I've found useful and non-redundant.This,
> however, depends on real usage statistics and not *my* usage statistics.

I don't record any statistics D=

> You are right to think a Q&A system could replace the One True Thread and I
> think it could help clear out the other issue trackers.
> I've no proof in Redmine's usefulness, I think I might leave Jostein
> Berntsen, as he's the tool's main proponent, to answer that for me.
> In regards to git, the GitHub one is probably best because it Googles best.
> I'd advocate that as the primary git host.

I'd simply keep all three git hosts. I like redundancy when it comes to
hosting verifiably authentic source code.

Still I recommend everyone to treat savannah's git as "the official git
repo".  There have been times when the different repos were out of sync
and I always used savannah's repository as a basis for the other ones.

> I then think that the ArchLinux Wiki Page, on further inspection, isn't all
> that expansive. It'd be fine to treat that as a small external thing and
> leave it out of this map. That leaves two areas where discussion actually
> happens - the mailing list can stay more "dev-oriented" and the Q&A can be
> the OTT replacement.


> > 3. What would be a good system for publishing plugins and patches?
> Well, you know what I'm going to suggest again ;). Package... MANAGER! An
> online directory where people can post and pull packages (under admin
> supervision, I guess) should be sufficient then.
> > [2] http://www.osqa.net/
> > [3] http://www.question2answer.org/
> (The internet, btw, seems to prefer Q2A)

I'm still not convinced a package manager is a good idea, but I'm going
to think about it.  Maybe in the way that miodrag described it.

> @Michishige Kaito
> > As far as I can tell, you have everything you need with Savannah. What
> you do have is a lot of redundant stuff, but that shouldn't bother you.
> Just keep Savannah clean and up to date."
> Savannah hasn't proven popular so far and I really don't like the
> interface, plus a bug tracker really isn't a good Q&A place.

So, I'm not the only one who finds savannah's interface uncomfortable.

> @Mantas
> > Read the Docs [1] for documentation.
> Ooh, that looks nice.
> To be fair, I've only just realised that "1?" and co. still work since we
> changed help page styles, so my primary point is that I think we need
> hyperlinked pages in the inbuilt help. However, if we want to go full blown
> it will look quite pro. I just don't know if we have enough manpage
> material for Read the Docs.

Why does everybody hate man pages?

> @Jostein Berntsen
> > I believe Redmine would cover it all
> Can you show me that Redmine is good at what it does. In my short scanning
> I've seen no real benefits to it, but I'll be happy to be shown wrong.

Redmine seems really nice and clear though.

> >The Arch Linux thread should kept as it is, I think, it has a load of
> great info.
> I can understand not removing the page, but it's too big to want to let
> grow, à mon avis.


On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 08:04:09AM +0200, Miodrag Milic wrote:
> Redmine is great, I use it exclusively to manage 10+ projects each
> including bunch of programmers.
> The one thing it is missing is good forum, but you could disable it and put
> link to OSQA or some other tag driven place. I believe tags are the best
> form of organisation now. There are some plugins for redmine that provide
> tagging features for some objects in it, but not for forum. Also, putting a
> lot of redmine plugins may be problematic when you later want to update it
> - I used around 10 plugins and had to remove some during each update. If
> you use Redmine, make sure to install it and update it using SVN as that is
> the fastest way.

I'm happy that most are comfortable with a tag-based Q&A system.
I guess now the question is whether to keep savannah or move to redmine?

> Perhaps plugins could be maintained just the way they are done on redmine
> itself: http://www.redmine.org/plugins. Plugins itself are on github and
> portal serves for discovery.

Decent idea (until someone writes Popen("rm -rf /") in their plugins :D)
I'll consider this once some plugin exist.

> GIthub is great place, but I don't think that options for maintaining the
> knowledge base or advanced forum communication are there.



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