[Savannah-hackers] (Maybe not so) Frequently Asked Questions

[Dashamir Hoxha]

Hello,

I have these questions about copying permission
statement:

1 - Why is it necessary to put it at the beginning
    of _every_ source file?

2 - In a web application there are usually PHP
    files, JavaScript files, HTML files, CSS files,
    etc. Are HTML and CSS files to be considered as
    source code? Is it necessary to put the copying
    permission statement at the top of each HTML
    and CSS file as well?

I couldn't find the answer of these questions at
the FAQ page. I tried to discuss them with 
Rudy Gevaert <address@hidden> (from savannah hackers)
however his answers didn't satisfy me. I have 
attached here the correspondence with him 
(I have deleted some nonrelevant parts, however 
if Rudy thinks that they are important, he can 
forward them).

For the next release of phpWebApp (a web application
framweork package, which I wish to make a GNU
package),
in order to be conform the existing rules, I will try
to do such a compromise:
1 - I all add the copying permission statement at
    the top of every PHP and JS files that are longer
    than 25 lines.
2 - I will add just "This file is part of phpWebApp."
    to the PHP and JS files that are less than 25
    lines.
3 - I will not add it to the HTML, CSS, txt, etc.

However, I think that these questions need to get
a reasonable answer. Just "Yes." or "No.", or
"Because I like it so." or "Because this is how it
has been decided." are not acceptable answers.

Best regards,
Dashamir Hoxha

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--- On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 01:48:13 -0700 (PDT)
--- Dashamir Hoxha <address@hidden> wrote:

Hi Rudy,

> Before releasing your project under the GPL, please
> place
> copyright notices and permission to copy statements
> at the beginning
> of every file of source code.  

This is something I don't fully understand.
Why is it necessary to place them at the beginning
of _every_ file? I couldn't find an answer to this
question in the FAQ too.

I like to spread the code into many files, for more
readability. For example, I never put two PHP classes
in the same file, but put them in separate files; I
don't put all the constants of the application in the
same file, but divide them into separate files
according to their categorization. If you see the 
code of the framework, you will find there some small
or very small files (with just 3 or 4 lines). 

Adding a big comment at the beginning of every file,
in my opinion, reduces the readability of the code
and is unnecessary. Actually, all these files work 
as part of the whole framework, so I don't understand
the necessity of adding permission statements at the 
beginning of each of them. Maybe adding it at just
a few key files of the framework would be enough, and
then at the other files I can add just "This file is
part of phpWebApp.".

Another thing related to web applications is that
they may have HTML files, CSS files etc. (along with
PHP files and JavaScript files). Are they to be 
considered as code files as well, and should I include
permission statements at the beginning of each of
them?

Regards,
Dashamir
=======================================================================

--- On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 05:30:48 -0400
--- Rudy Gevaert <address@hidden> wrote:

> > Before releasing your project under the GPL, please
> > place
> > copyright notices and permission to copy statements
> > at the beginning
> > of every file of source code.  
> 
> This is something I don't fully understand.
> Why is it necessary to place them at the beginning
> of _every_ file? I couldn't find an answer to this
> question in the FAQ too.

There is a simple answer to that question.  If a file hasn't got them
one could say that that file isn't under the GPL.

Imagina that the files who have the license in them get lost.  And
somebody else gets the other files without the license and copyright
notices and permission to copy statements.  Then there is no way for
that person to know that the code is licensed under the GPL and thus
copylefted.

Rudy
=======================================================================

--- On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 06:52:56 -0700 (PDT)
--- Dashamir Hoxha <address@hidden> wrote:

Hi Rudy,

I think that you gave me the best fastest answer that
you could think of at the moment.

Please try to discuss this problem further with other
people (with those that are allowed to modify the
"rules"), or tell me where I can discuss it further.
I raised some issues on my message but you did not
answer them.

> > This is something I don't fully understand.
> > Why is it necessary to place them at the beginning
> > of _every_ file? I couldn't find an answer to this
> > question in the FAQ too.
>
> There is a simple answer to that question.  If a
> file hasn't got them
> one could say that that file isn't under the GPL.

However, another one can also say that it IS under
GPL, since it is a part of a whole framework, and
this framework is under GPL. Is it worthy to spoil
the code with redundant comments? Why don't we put
these comments in front of every function? I may
decide to write each function in a separate file
(the same that I do with each class),- you know, in
PHP this is not uncommon, one may do it for
performance reasons, 
include and use just the function that you
need and not every function. This would be equivalent
with putting redundant comments in front of every
function.

>
> Imagina that the files who have the license in them
> get lost.  And
> somebody else gets the other files without the
> license and copyright
> notices and permission to copy statements.  Then
> there is no way for
> that person to know that the code is licensed under
> the GPL and thus
> copylefted.

This is just an hypothetical example. How do you
imagine that these files can get lost? Even if they
are stored in a couple of CVS repositories, written in
some CDs and in use by many people? Can't you imagine
that even parts of files can get lost as well in the
same way (exactly the part of the files that contains
the copyrights and permissions)?

I think that it is important, this is why I insist on
discussing it. I have always felt that it is too ugly
when I have had to scroll down one pages or two in
order to reach the code (not just GPL, other kinds of
licences and statements and comments as well). However
this is justified when all the program is in one file.
But when there are many files and each file has just
a couple of lines, I think that it is too much.

Regards,
Dashamir
=======================================================================

--- On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:17:11 -0400
--- Rudy Gevaert <address@hidden> wrote:

You can contact address@hidden
=======================================================================

--- On  Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:20:09 -0400
--- Rudy Gevaert <address@hidden> wrote:

> Another thing related to web applications is that
> they may have HTML files, CSS files etc. (along with
> PHP files and JavaScript files). Are they to be 
> considered as code files as well, and should I include
> permission statements at the beginning of each of
> them?

Yes.
=======================================================================

--- On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:57:19 -0700 (PDT)
--- Dashamir Hoxha <address@hidden> wrote:

> You can contact address@hidden

I will do it. Is it a discussion list?
Meanwhile can you please forward my previous
messages there? Did you contact anybody about
the matter?

Dashamir
=======================================================================

--- On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:02:48 -0700 (PDT)
--- Dashamir Hoxha <address@hidden> wrote:

> > Another thing related to web applications is that
> > they may have HTML files, CSS files etc. (along
> with
> > PHP files and JavaScript files). Are they to be
> > considered as code files as well, and should I
> include
> > permission statements at the beginning of each of
> > them?
>
> Yes.

Is this your opinion os something else?
=======================================================================

--- On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:39:31 -0400
--- Rudy Gevaert <address@hidden> wrote:

> > You can contact address@hidden
>
> I will do it. Is it a discussion list?

No it isn't.

> Meanwhile can you please forward my previous
> messages there?

It's better that you do it so all messages are grouped.

> Did you contact anybody about the matter?

No, I didn't have time.

Rudy
=======================================================================

--- On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:37:01 -0700 (PDT)
--- Dashamir Hoxha <address@hidden> wrote:

> > > You can contact address@hidden
> > 
> > I will do it. Is it a discussion list?
> 
> No it isn't.

Then, what is it? You don't have to be so cryptic.

Dashamir
=======================================================================