Re: Some suggestions and bug report

[Karl Berry]

Hi Vincent,

    The two attached emails were never answered. 

I did answer them (on Nov 28), shortly after you sent them.  Maybe my
reply went to your spam.  I'll send this msg through another server and
hope you get it ...

Best,
Karl

    
From: address@hidden (Karl Berry)
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: Some issues with ifinfo and ifhtml
In-Reply-To: <address@hidden>

Hi Vincent,

    FYI, the attached file produce a compilation error. It seems that the
    @setfilename command cannot be enclosed within @ifhtml or @ifinfo
    directives.

That is true.  Don't do that.

    then the HTML compilation produces plenty of warnings on macroes
    previously defined.

Macros inside @copying are unlikely to work very well, if at all.
Define macros at the top level of the document.

In general, Texinfo macros are (unfortunately) quite suboptimal, and
using lots of them is likely to cause unexpected problems.  They aren't
like m4 or TeX macros -- in Texinfo, the @macro expansion process is
fraught with problems and can't even be completely defined.  In
particular, macros interact with line-oriented commands very badly.
Sorry ... maybe we'll design a better system one day.

More answers to your other mail in a minute.

karl


From: address@hidden (Karl Berry)
To: address@hidden
CC: address@hidden
Subject: Re: Texinfo and node presentation names
In-Reply-To: <address@hidden>

Hi Vincent,

I'm cc-ing Patrice Dumas, who maintains the texi2html-derived makeinfo
that will be the "makeinfo" in the next Texinfo release.

    I also find it more convenient to type Texinfo code than HTML code,

Glad to hear you say this.  Me too :).

    rather the node /displayed name/. 

It is true that Texinfo has no concept of "displayed node name".
It seems quite a complicated concept to introduce, since nodes are the
fundamental building block of Texinfo files.

Also, it is impossible by design to have a "displayed node name"
different from the real node name in Info output.  Info output is
essentially plain text and there is no way to somehow magically
substitute strings at display time.

I gather what you want is to use (something like)
@node A chapter
in both manual.en.texi and manual.fr.texi, but somehow have
"Un chapitre" be what actually appears in the French output.  Is that right?

If it's only an issue of maintenance, how about simply using something
like this in manual.fr.texi:

@c node A chapter
@node Un chapitre

Then it would be possible to write a tool to verify the consistency of
the nodes in the English with the nodes in the translations.

    - Words like Up, Next, Previous, are not translated for the HTML export,

Really?  Those are keywords for Info output, so can't be translated
there.  But they should be translated for HTML, seems to me.

    - In jPicEdt manual, just like in JDEE manual, the HTML display is in
      two frames: 

The HTML output from texi2html is just about infinitely customizable, so
in principle I feel pretty sure that anything you want there can be
done.  I think I've seen HTML output from Texinfo manuals that's similar
to what you describe.  Patrice can answer more precisely.

(Just BTW, I find that sites using HTML frames are inherently confusing
to users.)


Hope we can work things out so you're happy with the use of Texinfo for
your project ...

Best,
Karl