Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Viro: "How many GPL spirits can dance on the end of a pin?"

[Alexander Terekhov]

Al Viro wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2007 at 12:31:00AM -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote:
> 
> > I'm not trying to say why Linus and others chose the GPLv2.
> >
> > I'm not trying to determine what their motivations were.
> >
> > I'm not trying to force them to change to GPLv3.
> >
> > I'm not trying to convince them that tivozation is a bad thing.
> >
> > I'm only trying to show that anti-tivozation is in line with the
> > spirit of the GPL.
> 
> .. and anti-tivoization section shows all symptoms of going in wrong
> direction, *whether* *tivo* *is* *good* *or* *not*.  It's full of
> kludges exactly because it tries to carve out a notion that can only
> be determined on case-to-case basis and not by generic definition.
> And no, that's not a matter of bad wording in that section.
> 
> I don't _care_ whether it breaks spirit, etc. - it's a fundamentally bad
> idea for completely independent reasons.  Even if one thinks that tivo
> in particular ought to be sued into the ground at some point.
> 
> Besides, it's fscking *pointless* for userland stuff.  If you insist that
> e.g. glibc will infect by linking, you've just created a huge problem for
> any GPLv2 userland code, which will make all bad blood about kernel look
> trivial in comparison.  If you do not, then you've lost all leverage anyway;
> kernel won't switch, libraries are OK, toolchain is obviously OK for building
> code with any license... what's left?  The glorious /bin/cp?  Sorry, it would
> work as usual, subject to open(2) not returning EACCES.  Just as on any
> system.  Just what is it going to prevent?  Hell, they can slap selinux on
> the box, protect what they want to protect, use crypto-loop to prevent offline
> modifications of filesystem and hide the key in firmware.
> 
> Either GPLv2 is sufficient in given case (and e.g. Alan decides to go
> after company in question), or you've at most created a moderate amount
> of work rewriting the checks they are doing into a different form (if
> that).  Good job.  In the meanwhile, you've got a load of ill-defined
> verbiage around installation instructions.  I.e. a lovely fodder for
> potential abusers.
> 
> Sod it.  GPLv3, with your involvement in its development or not, sucks
> rocks, thanks to what you call anti-tivoization section.
> 
> --
> How many GPL spirits can dance on the end of a pin?

regards,
alexander.

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