Re: Suggest installer optionally set ALTERNATE_EDITOR

[Joel Reicher]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Joel Reicher <joel.reicher@gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 20:16:51 +1000
>> 
>> Since the recommended way (in the W32 FAQ) to get file associations working 
>> is to set ALTERNATE_EDITOR (amongst other things) I think it would add value 
>> for the installer to offer this as an optional step.
>> 
>> In my opinion a nice default value is
>> 
>> <emacs root>\emacs-28.1\bin\runemacs.exe --no-splash
>> 
>> as I believe most users would expect the splash screen to be suppressed when 
>> launching emacs via a file association, but may still want the splash screen 
>> when launching emacs directly.
>> 
>> It also seems to me quite benign to set an environment variable that 
>> probably isn't used by anything else.
>> 
>> An additional option to add
>> 
>> (server-start)
>> 
>> to an init file (creating if necessary) would also be nice, but perhaps a 
>> little less benign.
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>
> The above is perfectly OK as your personal preferences.  But I'm not
> at all sure they should be the default behavior.

I'm not suggesting they should be the default; I believe this should be an 
*option* in the installer.

> Specifically:
>
>   - file associations:
>
>     . are people really using them so widely as to offer that by
>       default?

I think this is a good question, and/but best understood as being about Windows 
"culture".

And I think the answer (for Windows users) is "yes".

I could of course be wrong, but I believe doing this would hedge our bets. If a 
Windows user is not using file associations, offering this installer option 
does not impede them. On the other hand if a Windows user has an expectation of 
file associations, this will make Emacs (as a text editor; more below) more 
appealing/accessible.

>     . what exactly would you offer? Emacs can visit and display many
>       different formats of files. which associations to create is very
>       personal, so without showing all the file types we are capable
>       to support and letting user check the boxes, we are risking an
>       annoyance, because people will select the option and suddenly
>       their long-time system-wide associations no longer work

No arguments with any of that, but I'm not suggesting the installer set 
associations. I'm suggesting the installer offer the "groundwork" for 
associations that may not immediately be apparent to a Windows-using newcomer 
to Emacs.

That assessment is partly based on experience. I know a few experienced Emacs 
users who when being forced to move to Windows did not immediately know how to 
arrange the associations, but found them useful.

And newcomers are often under the impression Emacs is a text editor. This sets 
the expectation that file associations will work the same way as for "other" 
text editors.

If we meet this expectation, the user can gain enough experience to realise 
Emacs is not a text editor, and other usage patterns emerge.

>     . setting environment variables tends to be a privileged operation
>       on many Windows systems lately (don't ask me why), so using that
>       we risk getting innocent users into trouble with their admins

Windows environment variables can be set at either the "system level" or the 
"user level" (not sure of the exact terminology). Regardless of which we 
choose, I am only suggesting the installer use the privilege it is already 
using to set the shortcuts.

>   - splash screen: we show it for a reason, and require users to
>     disable it by an explicit customization for a reason -- we _want_
>     new users to see that stuff, including the links there

I'm happy to back away from this part of my suggestion; I half expected someone 
to say exactly what you've said. I still think the setting I've described is 
very good for a user like myself, but a newcomer does need to see the splash 
screen at least once.

>   - server-start: you assume that many people use the server-client
>     protocol and want it enabled by default. IME, this is far from the
>     truth, especially on MS-Windows.  (Full disclosure: I start the
>     server in my init file, have done so for many years.)

I do make an assumption, but probably not the one you have in mind. I assume 
that Windows users who are newcomers to Emacs are ignorant. By presenting these 
things as *options* in the installer (and I can't emphasise that enough) I 
intend it to be informative, not prescriptive. I hope that makes sense.

> So once again: why do you think these should be turned on by default?
> You never explained that.  If anything, you should first lobby for
> them to become the default on all supported platforms, not just on
> Windows.  There's nothing Windows-specific about any of them.

I'm not thinking in terms of defaults; I hope that's clear now.

In terms of other platforms, I think you might be implying there aren't 
significant cultural differences. If so, I believe that's a mistake. My 
assessment is that Windows users are accustomed to graphical shells, UNIX users 
are accustomed to xterm and window managers, and in all honesty I can't speak 
for Linux users.

But I can be wrong on all those counts and still be right that cultural 
differences exist.

Thanks and regards,

       - Joel