Re: CVS and unicode

[Russ Sherk]

On 9/12/05, Christian Hujer <address@hidden> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Am Montag, 12. September 2005 07:00 schrieb Larry Jones:
> > Christian Hujer writes:
> > > Example: Data files from the Daimonin project (an MMORPG). They are
> > > ISO-8859-1 text files. They must explicitely only use LF for line ending.
> > > They won't work with CR/LF. The file format is specified to be plain text
> > > with LF line endings only. The server and editor will not accept files
> > > with CR/LF.
> >
> > Then they're not text files.  ISO 8859-1 files won't look anything like
> > text on an IBM mainframe that uses EBCDIC instead of ASCII.
> Okay, but I think talking of EBCDIC or other non-ASCII-based charsets /
> encodings is really pointless.
> 
> > Remember
> > that the main motivation for CVS was source code control.  Compilers
> > nearly always insist that source code be in the system's native text
> > file format (or a reasonable facsimile thereof), so CVS follows that
> > convention.
> Well, I don't know that many compilers, I know javac, jikes, gcc and those
> from Microsoft. All of these accept LF just as well as CR/LF, regardless of
> the platform.

Note: Microsoft compilers accept them for the most part.  However,
when dealing with dll exports the .def file _is_ sensitive to
cr/lf-lf.  We had an (very hard to debug) issue where our build failed
because of the conversion.

> 
> Also, we're trying to solve a problem with CVS that is not solved where files
> are exchanged in different ways like file shares, ftp, removable storage
> devices (floppy, usb, cd, dvd), archives (like zip, tar, rar etc. - sometimes
> the CR/LF-LF problem is handled there, but not often).
> 
> > > Most systems use LF, yes. The only CR system still in use that I know of
> > > is Mac OS, and within Mac OS X this all is currently migrating from CR to
> > > LF to fulfil POSIX compatibility.
> > > The only CR/LF systems still in use that I know of are Windows and TOS.
> > > All other systems that I know use LF.
> > There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your
> > philosophy.
> I hope you're not trying to count CP/M, Multics etc.. I think there are even
> more Inferno, MorphOS or Plan9 users...
> 
> > > But regardless, if a cvs client changes a file upon checkin or checkout
> > > other than keyword replacement or diff patching, it eventually breaks the
> > > file, see above example.
> > For one specific misuse.  Not changing the file would break the intended
> > use far more often.
> I've never seen a project where text files with LF only would be a problem
> when still being LF only on Windows. But I've of course only seen a small
> number of possible projects...
> 
> > > Really? The standard command line client converts LF to CR/LF?  As you
> > > see I've never ever used the standard cvs command line client on Windows.
> > > I always get Cygwin. I never use Windows without a Cygwin (which then is
> > > installed to use LF, of course).
> >
> > Yes, it does.  And Cygwin includes the standard CVS command line client.
> > If you install Cygwin with Unix line endings, you're no longer running a
> > Windows system, you're running a Unix-like system where the native text
> > file format matches the repostory text file format so no conversion
> > occurs.
> That's a point.
> 
> Now who is responsible for adding the CR if I access the file with Notepad?
> (Imo I, the user is, because the OS is too stupid, and I really know more
> about how my file contents should look like than the OS)
> 
> > > From a data file point of view, the text file might in fact be a data
> > > file which must not be modified regarding its line endings or encoding,
> > > despite the fact that it has been checked in as text file, regardless of
> > > the client operating system, because some software might rely upon the
> > > line endings and encodings.
> > > In that context, converting LF to CR/LF is a Bad Thing and must not be
> > > done.
> >
> > In that context, it's not a text file and must be marked as binary, no
> > matter how much it may look like text to you.
> I disagree, because that breaks the possibility of diffs with version control.
> 
> Christian
> 
> 
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